s02e21 — Becoming — Part I

Buffy the Vampire Slayer — s02e21 — Becoming — Part I

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Release Date: 13.05.1998 05:00
Watched by: 25 61867.32%
2 season
s02e21

Discussion: Season 2, Episode 21
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id268457930
id268457930
11 Sep 2015, 01:27 #
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TimeVortex
TimeVortex
02 Apr 2016, 03:37 #
@id268457930: This series is definitely not for you.
illseethese
illseethese
19 Feb 2021, 22:17 #
@id268457930: Dru is a bright character, I want her to be transferred from the status of an antagonist to Buffy's gang. Cordelia could, and Drusilla could.
Иерарх
Иерарх
06 Jul 2020, 21:03 #
Kendra is dead, can we wait for a new Slayer?
illseethese
illseethese
19 Feb 2021, 22:18 #
@Иерарх: It's unlikely that Kendra became the winner just because Buffy had been dead for a while. The other one will only appear if Buffy dies.
Гамулятор
Гамулятор
30 Jul 2021, 09:57 #
@illseethese: Buffy fell out of the line of succession with her death. So it is Kendra's death that provokes the initiation of a new slayer.
Buffy
Buffy
10 Aug 2020, 23:52 #
I'm reviewing this series for the first time and I know that there are a lot of inconsistencies (especially the understudies in the fighting scenes are clearly visible), but only now the question has arisen: a person turns into a vampire after drinking the blood of another vampire, and as it was shown in one of the previous episodes, some people even craved it. And what about those Buffy watches in cemeteries? So all those who awaken from their graves also drank the blood of their sire? Explanatory help team )
Zigarette
Zigarette
20 Mar 2022, 02:57 #
@Buffy: of all the explanations that came to my mind, it's that sometimes vampires get bored and they turn someone just like that (as I understood it, the girl who turned Angel didn't hang out with him anymore either, but just turned him). It is also quite possible that older and smarter vampires simply convert different people so that they later become their cannon fodder, new slaves, so to speak (for example, the girl who burned in the sun to deliver a message to Buffy). And then whoever proves himself will become a cool vampire.
StasyaVasya
StasyaVasya
06 Nov 2024, 03:27 #
@Zigarette: Darla didn't hang out with Angel? Their group (Darla, Ange, Dru and Spike) made a good noise)) In "Angel" their affairs are covered in more detail.
Sternenreich
Sternenreich
04 Oct 2024, 21:12 #
@Buffy: You're not the only one who noticed this oddity. There is a version that in order to become a vampire in Buffy, it is not necessary to exchange blood with a vampire (by the way, it is not enough just to drink it, but it is necessary that he also drink yours). It's enough for a vampire to drink enough of yours to make you die, but not all of it. So that the blood remains in the dead body. That would explain why Buffy has so many random vampires. A good confirmation of this version is the episode from the third season, where a vampire in a straitjacket turns his supervisor. That is, the ritual of blood exchange is optional in order to convert someone.
QueenOfGems
QueenOfGems
06 Oct 2024, 20:59 #
@Sternenreich: I mean, do you have an opinion? From where?

(also, why are you spoiling.

in the comment above, SPOILERS for one of the episodes of season 3)
Sternenreich
Sternenreich
07 Oct 2024, 00:32 #
@QueenOfGems: watch the episode I have indicated and you will see that there is no smell of blood exchange there.
There is a spoiler alert when opening comments. They are in the comments under the series of tueva hooch, so why these troubles? If you are afraid of spoilers, do not open comments.
QueenOfGems
QueenOfGems
07 Oct 2024, 13:05 #
@Sternenreich: I watched this episode like everyone else. The question was not about that, but about where the opinion came from - is it some kind of established fanon or your personal one? Because this is the first time I've heard it.

And spoilers in the comments are usually for the series under discussion, not for the next season.
Mr_Mizzrim
Mr_Mizzrim
21 Sep 2020, 02:14 #
Even I don't understand why they have the Angel killer dilemma./Angel is not to blame, although in fact the problem in returning his soul to him is that it was his curse and if he does not suffer with his soul, he may lose it again.
alinejusty
alinejusty
01 Jan 2021, 20:07 #
And it's also unclear where vampires get their blood from, if they're not alive, as I understand it, they shouldn't have any fluids. Angel said he couldn't have children 🤔
Sternenreich
Sternenreich
04 Oct 2024, 21:17 #
@alinejusty: If there were no liquids in them, they would be dry mummies! Vampires are infertile because their reproductive system doesn't work. Men have dead spermatozoa (or they are not produced. Here xs), in women, the reproductive system cannot create offspring. They're the living dead, so a lot of things in their bodies don't work anymore. Like the blood circulation. But they have blood. It just doesn't circulate or curl up inside.
illseethese
illseethese
19 Feb 2021, 22:21 #
So Buffy turns out to be a glamorous goofball before becoming a winner. She wasn't much different in behavior from Cordelia.
Sternenreich
Sternenreich
04 Oct 2024, 21:18 #
@illseethese: She talked about it in the very first episodes. In particular, in the 11th episode of the first season.
Zах
Zах
PRO
27 Jun 2021, 14:02 #
Angel's kind demon and mentor. That's what I want to know more about. I understand there are good demons and monsters who are for Slayers?.
WildBart
WildBart
28 Jun 2022, 16:50 #
The answer is more for new people interested than for Zax:
For "good demons and monsters," this is a direct route to the Angel series.
By the way, this actor was planned there, but was not available and they came up with another one.
MoneyBarney
MoneyBarney
12 Sep 2021, 17:33 #
Xander is partly right that Angel deserves to die for everything he's done, but he's only saying it because it's convenient for him. It's convenient to get your opponent out of the way, because you still have feelings for Buffy. And such words, at such moments, characterize him very well as a person.
I was also surprised by the moment - when the vampire came into the classroom and burned down, everyone reacted calmly, it's clear that someone was scared, but why didn't anyone have any questions about what it was all about. It's a bit of a strange moment.
albulka_
albulka_
25 Apr 2024, 19:22 #
@MoneyBarney: there's already so much game going on at school that all the students don't give a shit, it looks like :D
Sternenreich
Sternenreich
04 Oct 2024, 21:21 #
@MoneyBarney: In Sunnydale, everyone really knows everything (especially the students at school), they just pretend that nothing is really happening. They don't talk about such things openly. An unspoken taboo.
EyeOfTheRaven
EyeOfTheRaven
PRO
27 Nov 2021, 01:58 #
"Yeah, you're a satanic brat"🤣

The other beauty of course, while Spike and Angel can barely fight on equal terms with the slayer, she does Kendra with one left. I'd watch her fight Buffy.

It pisses me off when in movies/TV series villains want to destroy the world. It's so pointless and stupid.
Zigarette
Zigarette
20 Mar 2022, 03:00 #
@SantaJul: Well, yes, they live in this world too. 😂
And most importantly, the "Judge" from the previous episodes would have killed all the people on the planet... Who would the vampires feed on then? I've always been interested in this question))
Sternenreich
Sternenreich
04 Oct 2024, 21:23 #
@Zigarette: Technically, vampires can drink blood not only from humans - this is one time. Secondly, people in the Buffivers universe do not only exist... ahem... in the human world, but also in other dimensions.
Sternenreich
Sternenreich
04 Oct 2024, 21:25 #
@EyeOfTheRaven: In the case of Acatla, they wanted him to drag the world into a hellish dimension. But that would not mean that everything would be destroyed. This meant that people would enter a world dominated by demons. That was the idea.
EyeOfTheRaven
EyeOfTheRaven
PRO
05 Oct 2024, 21:05 #
@Sternenreich Thanks. So I was looking inattentively and misunderstood everything
Enestezi
Enestezi
12 Apr 2022, 09:15 #
It was interesting to look into Angel's past. But I still don't understand why I should give him his soul back if he's going to be with Buffy again, experience happiness again, and be without a soul again. It doesn't make sense. It's just that you have to kill him for a long time, by the way, although this character will learn to me)
The winner is dead, long live the new winner!)
Sternenreich
Sternenreich
04 Oct 2024, 21:26 #
@BlondeBets: in order not to lose his soul again, it is enough for him not to do anything that can make him feel a moment of true happiness. For example, no more sleeping with Buffy)
evil_pentagram
evil_pentagram
19 Apr 2022, 04:41 #
Oh, it's a pity for Cedar, she had such a bright appearance, I wanted to watch her longer. And the chemistry with Buffy was great. According to Angel, it probably makes sense to return his soul, it's at least to get a strong opponent out of the way, because he's doing a lot of evil. And since Buffy can't kill him because of her feelings, that's a good option. And love is a carrot, that's the tenth thing. Fortunately, I don't remember their love line at all, but logically, if he gets his soul back, then after all his murders, Buffy will have a hard time accepting him back, and he himself will realize that he is not worthy of her and all that. Drusilla is good, she's a devil!!
Aydan9
Aydan9
05 Jul 2023, 15:05 #
«There's moments in your life that make you, that set the course of who you're gonna be. Sometimes they're little, subtle moments. Sometimes, they're not.»
lest_forget
lest_forget
PRO
19 Dec 2023, 14:15 #
Still, it's a wild joint of some kind. It has been said more than once that when you become a vampire, your soul flies away, and a demon enters your body. By what logic then should the Angel have suffered forever because his soul was returned to him? If a demon was killing, who apparently returned to hell, but his soul was in another place, he actually did not kill anyone with his soul and could not suffer for the actions of another who was in his body, it was pointless. So are all the arguments and quarrels in this series about the Angel on this topic. It would seem that the characters themselves should understand all this, but no... Or maybe the translation is such a sham? That's right, I plan to revise it in the original next time. I've already watched it in a better quality than a DVD rip, but there's only one Russian track sewn in there. And as someone wrote above, there are also disadvantages of better quality - understudies in fights are really very noticeable, you don't even need to look closely.
KatrinVamp
KatrinVamp
PRO
19 Dec 2023, 18:53 #
@annmaryray: maybe this refers to the soul as not a person (consciousness), but some kind of function of humanity (as in DV, where vampires could turn it off at will)? Indeed, it would be nice to see how it sounds in the original.
lest_forget
lest_forget
PRO
19 Dec 2023, 22:06 #
@KatrinVamp: I don't know, I didn't watch it, although I tried to start, but it didn't get me at all.
KatrinVamp
KatrinVamp
PRO
19 Dec 2023, 22:34 #
@annmaryray: The first 3-4 episodes are dull, and then it gets so addictive that you can't tear yourself away.
lest_forget
lest_forget
PRO
20 Dec 2023, 00:18 #
@KatrinVamp: Well, maybe. I've been trying to watch it for a long time, and I've only managed 4 episodes through my teeth. Mb, one day I'll get around to it, I'll try again) I started Angel gritting my teeth three times (as many as 10 episodes and dropped out), as a result, I watched it completely on the 3rd attempt, but he never hooked me. But I love Buffies, I don't get tired of reviewing them.
Sternenreich
Sternenreich
04 Oct 2024, 21:34 #
@KatrinVamp: you are not the only one who doubted the literal interpretation of this word. But all contradictions disappear if we interpret the word "soul" as an allegory of the ability to experience empathy. In other words: all these stories about demons and the soul were invented by people to make it easier to kill vampires without thinking about the fact that you kill a person close to you. It's easier to kill him, imagining that it's not him, but a demon that has possessed his body. This is clearly seen in the episode from the TV series Angel, where, according to the plot, the actress deprived Angel of his soul, simply drugging him and making him believe that he really lost it. That is, "soul deprivation" and " demon possession" is just a screen, so as not to explain that the convert simply blunts the ability to empathy and predatory instincts appear.
albulka_
albulka_
25 Apr 2024, 19:32 #
@lest_forget: in the episode with Giles's Demon, when Angel took this demon into himself, he said that his demon had been waiting for this for hundreds of years, i.e. apparently the demon had not flown anywhere, but was sitting somewhere inside, shackled by the soul that Angel had instilled. And with the departure of the soul, he just got free and went wild.

It seems to me that this "suffering", for which he was cursed, may be akin to a departure from a state of passion, i.e., to put it simply, here you are wildly angry, yelled at someone, said hurtful things, and then regret it, and think "How could I even behave like this?"
In the same way, Angel realizes that he did all the atrocities himself, even if he understands with his mind that he was led by a demon inside, the soul makes him realize that it was still himself and his body. Therefore, he repents, because with his soul, morality, humanity, empathy, etc. reappear. In the same way, we empathize if someone died in the series, although we understand intellectually that these are generally fictional characters.
Renfree
Renfree
05 May 2024, 00:08 #
@lest_forget: Not quite like that. The soul is here like a Freudian supernova - conscience, empathy, love; in addition to it there is actually the personality of the Ego (or its absence) and base instincts -Id. Upon conversion, the soul dies/flies away. And then all the dark sides of a person will be realized. Since most people are so-so, and are restrained from evil deeds only by fear of punishment and public condemnation, then vampires turn out to be actually stereotypical vampires. But someone remains capable of love - like Spike and not only. Even the attitude towards the family is different - Angelus/ Liam immediately devoured his own, and Spike tried to save his mother. In the comics, Gunn was converted after the fall of LA to hell and was in full control of his vampire nature. And no extraneous demons inhabit anywhere.
Sternenreich
Sternenreich
04 Oct 2024, 21:38 #
@Renfree: браво! 👏🏻
liebling_li
liebling_li
05 Sep 2025, 01:32 #
Poor Kendra, she was such a good girl.🥺
of_the_queens
of_the_queens
10 Oct 2025, 11:11 #
Only Kendrick is a pity in this episode.
StasyaVasya
StasyaVasya
07 Dec 2025, 01:47 #
I love Angel's last monologue in this episode.
And those inserts, how he was cursed, how he saw Buffy... eh, it's about to start…
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