@MINNESOTKA: It's not serious. This is an obvious joke, Nick (with a reference to the series) plus a masterpiece of commentatory thought plus pluses. They've come to this.
"go to hell, but in my heart I pray for salvation and ask you not to go anywhere." Clay is a very sensitive and understanding character, he really took her place and began to blame himself, although everyone understands that he himself was in shock, and then there were such rude and harsh words ... anyone would have left. p.s. how cool is it that Hannah's mother found the tapes!
@davis: I spit furiously. I also really "liked" Hannah's approach to him in relation to his being on one tape: they say, listen to 10 pieces, exhaust yourself, spoil your nerves, get exhausted, thinking that you are to blame for my death, and then on the eleventh find out that you are not to blame and your name is on this sheet at all unnecessary. Well, it's just great
@Supra: She could have at least hinted at the beginning that she didn't blame everyone who got the tapes for her death. Otherwise, it's kind of cruel, but she accuses everyone else of cruelty and indifference. It turns out that she judges that no one thinks about others, and then she herself did not think what she would bring a friend to. Illogical, that's all.
@Supra: and how can you not understand that she broke the psyche of a virtually innocent person? Clay has always been introverted, but here he's completely lost his mind.
@VoVseDnepriansky: kamon, everyone means exactly the numbering of the films. moreover, each cassette has numbers written on both sides, if you looked carefully, of course.
@sammy97: it's fashionable to think, do suicidal people think about others?!... I don't think so... When suicides end their lives, they only think about themselves, "we are the most unhappy people in the world," they do not think about others
You are very wrong. In fact, people who have decided to commit suicide are very strong-minded, and, more importantly, very tired. Do you have any idea how broken a person must be to decide on such a thing. Those who say that suicide is the lot of the weak do not understand anything about it, and I sincerely hope that they will never understand. Before deciding to actually commit suicide (and not just think about what would be good ...) they think a lot about who they will hurt for a very long time, and only after their pain crosses all boundaries do they realize that it is better to take their own lives. No one ever has the last thought in real life that everyone will be better off when they die. Although it's hard to say about Hannah if she was thinking about others when she committed suicide. Maybe it's just me, but her life isn't as terrible as she describes it and most of the people she blamed for her death. Besides Bryce, no one can be blamed for this, and she behaves like a little moody girl who is constantly being pulled by pigtails and tripped up. And in general, suicide is a decision made entirely by only one person. And only this man is to blame for his death. And only this person should be responsible.
@id47514649: I think Hannah was thinking about revenge. She made a lot of terrible and wrong decisions herself and doesn't even regret many of them. And of course the others are also to blame for their actions and, in principle, everyone can be understood, they were all guided by fear. And they are 16 years old, they are not adults yet and they can be understood (all except Bryce, of course). But I can't understand Hannah. She killed herself, blaming everyone else for it, broke the already shaky psyche of Clay, whom she loved, but the most important and terrible thing was that she gave answers to everyone who didn't really care. Everyone on the tapes would have survived her death, except for Clay. But she didn't leave anything to her parents. And from episode to episode, my heart bleeds, looking at the inconsolable parents who are trying in vain to figure out what happened, why their daughter killed herself. I can't even imagine how much it hurts them, but for some reason Hannah was worried about everyone except her parents. Where's the tape for the parents?
@DeadStarBazinga: those who are really "tired" and want to commit suicide do it at the moment. They behave as usual, laugh, have fun, and then throw themselves off the roof. Hannah, on the other hand, carefully prepared for everything, accused everyone, TOOK the TAPES and only then did what she did. It's not suicide because she's tired of living like this, it's a showcase for everyone she talks about on the tapes. So that they feel guilty, only no one is to blame for her problems except herself. She dragged out all the skeletons, some of which didn't even touch her. But she didn't say what she was like. In short, a stupid girl who climbs where she shouldn't and, for example, I wouldn't want to have such a friend.
@manyakess: not stupid, but just not understanding what they need. She clearly has trust issues + wants to play the princess trapped in the tower: come save her, but do it yourself, and I'll be such a prude. Seriously, it's just an annoying character, sorry :)
@theeastwind: agree.. I feel sorry for him more than for Hannah.. He didn't deserve this.. All we had to do was talk.. and not to invent something.. And Clay needed to be a little more brave.. Did you decide to kiss, but talk?? eh.. another proof that we need to be bolder.. Don't be silent about your feelings and worries!
I've been waiting for a tape about him since the first episode. And more often it always happens that when you wait for something for a long time, the result does not justify itself, but not in this case. It seems that she has told so little about him, but the plot is not about him, but about her, and therefore this is quite enough. I asked myself the question "Why did she send it?" I think we can't always feel the right way at the right moment (especially teenagers).
@АлексейЛазько: At least learn how to address girls normally first. It's still a long, long way from thinking about stereotypes and gaining respect for all people, of course.
How "smart" Hannah is. - "go away", "well, why did he leave, I needed help so much." I've seen guys who are assholes. Oh, he's fine, but I'd rather send him, I won't talk to him, I'll cry and open my veins.
@naleshamaus: Indeed, when the whole school considers you a whore, when your half-naked photos were distributed around the school, when the captain of the school team groped you, when all the guys you trusted betrayed you, you definitely won't be triggered by sex. She suffered, she couldn't take it adequately. Look at Jess, everything she's done in the last couple of episodes, she's done to get Justin to tell her the truth, she wanted to know for sure. But no one says, "Oh, I wanted to know, and now she's crying!"
@OceanMassacre: Yes, Jessica wanted to know herself, but now she's crying, and this is an adequate reaction of the girl to what is happening. Unlike Hannah.
@Shadowrun: you can't know which is an adequate response and which is not until you've been in such a situation or at least realize that everyone is different. Everyone's psyche is different and absolutely everyone will react to this situation in their own way. Someone will take revenge, someone will cry, someone will drive all their worries deep inside themselves until they break out and destroy everything that exists in a person's life.
@naleshamaus: it's like saying that it's strange when people who, for example, were raped in childhood behave inappropriately and vulnerable, even with possible intimacy with a person they like. why the fuck are you watching this series at all if you don't understand it in principle?
@naleshamaus: No, there's still logic here. There were a lot of assholes before Clay, and in the end, she thought Clay was just like everyone else, or rather, she was afraid that he might be the same, so she rejected him, just out of fear that everything would happen again, as if confirmed in an imaginary dialogue between Clay and Hannah, if Clay at least ask her what the problem was and she would answer, and then it's up to him to convince her that he really loves her. I don't see any anti-logic here. Clay is more of a brake here - he blunted it himself and he understands it perfectly well.
@VITIV: He is also 17 years old and has problems with socialization and self-esteem. "He could have," "she could have"-if they were completely different people.
Well, he tried asking a couple of times before she sent him away altogether. It's just that after listening to it, he decided that he should have done it even more persistently and not left until he answered. But he was confused, he thought that he had really offended her or done something wrong. He obviously doesn't have a lot of experience with girls, plus the fact that he himself said that he has communication problems. So I don't think he's that slow)
Hannah did a mean thing. Clay wasn't to blame for anything, but he had to live with it now. Very mean. And in relation to other students, too. And all these lawsuits and proceedings.. Yeah
Fuck, people, do you all seriously misunderstand Hannah's behavior? Firstly, in this episode, as in the previous one, he blames himself and talks about his deed. Secondly, can you imagine yourself for a second in the place of a depressed person, whose attempts at friendship were trampled on, who was ridiculed, called a whore and groped? And you think it's weird that she couldn't trust Clay? I'm more than sure that after watching "It's Good to Be Quiet," no one has any questions about why GG couldn't hook up with Emma Watson's character (!). He was head over heels in love with her, but he couldn't get close because of a deep-rooted childhood trauma. But here, Hannah's injury is very fresh, and others are not letting it grow. So draw parallels and understand. Oh, my God.
According to sabzhu: Clay is incredibly sorry. After a scene on the sidelines, I want to meet with the scriptwriters and punch them in the face. Then hug and cry. Then punch him in the face again.
@SpringSpark: So the thing is, it's hard to imagine. You usually empathize with heroes when you understand the logic of their behavior. When you can put yourself in their shoes and realize that you probably would have done the same. But look at all the comments condemning her actions. How many advantages they have. By the way, I'm one of them too. I just can't understand how anyone could commit suicide over something like this. Even in the series, there are characters who had a harder time. Clay had his head doused in the toilet, and Jessica was raped. Well, suicide itself is so calculated. It took a lot of time to organize all this. I just don't want to empathize with her after everything.
@brunbrun: 1. Each person perceives problems differently, there are people who are more sensitive than others. Therefore, you should never label everyone as "well, you're not suffering enough." What is a trifle for one is a big trouble for the other. 2. Jessica was raped, but she didn't remember it. And Hannah was systematically bullied. Did you go through bullying at school? When you come to school every day and hear people whispering behind your back, making jokes about you. They didn't see her as a person, several guys harassed her, took pictures of her in HER room, in the most secure place, it would seem. 3. Hannah had a desire to find justice, which is why she systematized it so much. I'm not going to spoil episodes 12 and 13, but if even after them you don't understand why and why she organized all this and what was the last straw for her (right, the very last, because she sought help from others and didn't find it), then you should get into her skin better, feel It's all on yourself.
@brunbrun: It's actually very good, even wonderful, that most people here can't understand and find logic in Hannah's actions. You have to think that people, you, are quite happy and depression is nothing more than a bad mood for you. It shouldn't be otherwise.
I totally agree... It is a pity that Hannah's behavior and actions are perceived so superficially, like the whims of a teenager during puberty. This means only one thing, that despite the rather talented acting and the talented work of the author and screenwriters, it was not possible to convey the idea of how to simply kill a person with one minor action or inaction...Sorry
@anna_sol777: wait what. Kill with ONE minor action? Where did this even happen? I don't recall that anything that any of the guys did was insignificant. And most of them knew exactly what they were doing. They did it intentionally. It's just that teenagers usually somehow manage to cope with it, so none of them expected that it would come out sideways for them later. And certainly no one in particular killed Hannah (just as no one in particular is to blame for her death) with "one minor act/omission." This is somehow very simplistic and far from the truth. The point of the series is not that, but that teenage suicide is a very complex, ambiguous and uncomfortable topic that even adults cannot cope with (which we can see perfectly well from the example of adults in this series), let alone teenagers, who, in fact, are a product of society (and parents, of course). Hannah was a very sensitive teenager, and when she was pushed to the point, she completely lost her head. All these tapes are really stupid, because NONE of those who did something bad to her changed after them. They either admitted their guilt before that and tried to atone for it, or they shat themselves at the thought that adults would know about it and began to intimidate those who did not want to remain silent. It made sense to give the tapes to adults. And they had to be converted by an adult. That would make some sense.
@SpringSpark: umm.. so no one here thinks it's strange that Hannah "couldn't trust Clay." Everyone finds it strange that she, accusing everyone of selfishness and so on, did no better herself when she forced an innocent man (Clay) to go through this hell. You just put yourself in HIS shoes, take a little break from justifying her inappropriate behavior. Of course, it is understandable that there would not have been such an intrigue if, according to the plot, Hannah had warned immediately on the first tape that she did not blame everyone on these recordings. But srsley, make me go through all this shit, and then say, "No, it's not your fault, you're such a normal guy"?
For the first time, I felt sorry for Justin. Alex is still the sunshine of the show. And of course Clay. It was too painful. And the scene, the so-called "moment that never happened," how Clay said "I love you," hugged Hannah, and cried on the road...God, it's impossible. I cried with him. The series has a very bitter taste. I can't tell you how sad everything is. But at the moment when Hannah first gets hysterical and shouts "go away", and then "why did you leave", I yelled out loud "how stupid you are!". No, I understand that everything is shitty with her, I understand her behavior, but damn, why did she say that? You got hysterical and yelled at him, and he got scared. That's understandable. he's gone. But fuck, Hannah, your loved one has to live with this! I don't understand her selfishness.
@Margo_Darling: No, I don't feel sorry for Justin, he let his chick get fucked, and then he just tried to hush it up, thinking that everyone would forget about it and everything would come to naught, but then the tapes surfaced..
@ВоВсеДнепрянские: On this episode, I also felt a little sorry for him.. but I still don't understand why only now?? Why didn't he avoid this situation back then?? Would he have pretended that nothing had happened if it hadn't been for the tapes?? And in the end, would he have told Jess the truth if it hadn't been for her provocations?? 🤔
The first episode of this series that made me cry Although I don't see Clay's guilt, in fact, Hannah says that he's not to blame, but everyone else described his story as something completely terrible! However, he's just a teenager! And he was clearly not to blame for her death. And it was cruel of Hannah to include him in this list.... Clay is the one here who didn't give a damn about Hannah's words, who gave them meaning, who might have been able to reason with the rest of the characters, he was able to do what she couldn't....
@id47191089: She put him on this list because she wanted him to know her story, not because he did something wrong. on the contrary, as you yourself have noticed, Hannah herself says that Clay is not to blame for anything and indirectly, but apologizes to him for adding him to the list. In my opinion, Clay was as close to Hannah as anyone, so you shouldn't blame her for wanting him to hear her story, so to speak, in the first person...
@ivpoet Didn't she put him on the list because she was worried that she couldn't trust him and did that to him? Well, that is, you are partly right, to learn the story - yes. But still, in my opinion, the point is that she couldn't open up to him, even though she imagined a very good future together. She's been pushed away by someone she cares about, and she's suffered from it herself. It turns out that there was another reason, but it wasn't Clay's fault, it was hers, but that made her suffer no less.
The episode that struck me the most was the one that made me cry several times. I really, really feel sorry for Clay, and even though Hannah said on the tape that "if you were with me, I would destroy you," I think she achieved the same result with these tapes. I don't understand people accusing Hannah of stupidity in the situation with Clay - the girl has deeply destroyed self-esteem due to many factors, she is on the verge of depression, she thinks that she is the worst of all and can only be treated like a whore. And it's not surprising that at the same time she wants Clay to understand her, so that at least someone understands, but... the moment when Jessica tried to bring Justin down was very striking, and I finally understood why she was going to Bryce - so that Justin would admit that there had been a rape. She is very, very sorry, and let's admit that she is very strong. P.S. Special thanks to the series for Tony, an amazing character (Unhelpful Yoda)
@K2isOn: I thought they just put the brakes on it all together, and she's just doing bullshit to piss off her boyfriend. Because there was a tiny moment of Jessica's own memories of that evening. After this episode, I was completely fucked up. Jessica is an incredibly strong girl.
After this episode, I feel like I've been stabbed several times. I cried with Clay, I feel so sorry for him. I have very mixed and ambiguous emotions about Hannah and her suicide, and I understand how all these situations affected her, but I still don't see much point in recording tapes. I saw a comment under some episode that even without them, those who mistreated her would have realized how mean they were, but then Clay would not have heard the story and what it was like for her
@embarrassed: I agree that without the tapes, Clay wouldn't have known what it was like for her and what she went through.. But it could have been fucking okay!!! Could she just tell him everything instead of pushing him away?? When they showed the moments where they are happy together.. God, that would be so wonderful.. But we're so stupid.. We don't do the right things or say the right words.. because we are afraid.. but it's better not to be silent.. otherwise, you can see for yourself what can happen.. we build our own destiny..
I know I'm probably going to get hushed up, whatever. I understand perfectly well what depression and rape are, but I also understand what dumb characters look like.
"I decided to kill myself because you're kind, decent, understanding, and listening." - that was my point of limit. We're back to the same bullshit we started with, and I just can't listen to this nonsense. that he's the drama king, that she's the drama queen. the perfect couple.
"now you've decided to die so that you can be reunited with Hannah forever?" I'm just Tony. the only normal character here.
Hugging Tony and Clay, tynts-tynts-tynts. lt;3 tumblr is on fire at all: "No one can convince me that Tony is not in love with Clay".
Jennifer is really sorry, I've already said this. Justin let it happen, but you have to hate Bryce. when Justin broke out with "I FUCKING KILL YOU," Bryce didn't even defend himself, didn't try to break out - because he knows perfectly well what kind of shit he did.
@youarebymyside: Jennifer? Maybe Jessica? And you really think Bryce knows what the fuck he's done? in my opinion, it became clear from his text message at the end of the episode that he considers this a trifle. Yes, even if he went around and killed himself, he should still be hated, like all rapists, and his guilt is completely incomparable to Justin's guilt. plus to the first "quote" - she said in direct words that he is not one of the reasons.
@Roland23: "justin didn't stop him, but you have to hate Bryce", "he understands what kind of shit he did" - aren't these attempts to justify him? So what if it's a TV series? the problems here are quite real.
@KILLJOYNASTICORN: I think you misunderstood the meaning of the first sentence (what makes you think that sarcasm is here?) and you're trying to exaggerate the rapist by denying him everything human. You would like rapists to be evil, and nasty, and have the mark of Cain on their face, but they are also human beings and may well be horrified by their actions and even repent. They can even do it very theatrically and reliably and pity the judge and the jury, but I still don't understand how you equate stating this fact with protecting a rapist? It's more like a witch hunt.
@KILLJOYNASTICORN: I don't remember the series anymore, but I never try to justify rapists. They're disgusting, and you're trying to attribute things to me that I didn't mean. And, no, there was no sarcasm in my comment, I don't even understand where you saw it.
The Skye and Clay scene was very relevant. And Tony was right to put him down later - it seems that after listening to almost all the tapes, you need to understand that you never know what's going on in another person's soul and thoughts, but Clay was still offended by Skye because of her generally correct words.
The whole soul of this series has worn out, and two more episodes. The last time "The O.C." planted such an emotional pig for me, I vowed to watch such things, and in the news — "detective, thriller, look-look." Creepy and pathetic meat grinder.
A great series! She just tore my heart to shreds! There are definitely no tears here. I feel very sorry for Clay, even though Hannah says it's not his fault, but there's still bitterness in my heart.
I don't understand one thing, maybe someone is looking more closely or has read a book to tell me. Or maybe I'm just getting ahead of myself. Anyway... if Clay wasn't originally supposed to be on this list, and judging by the diagram that Miss Baker found in the box (pro users can post a screenshot to complement it), if my eyes don't let me down, he's not there, because Hannah initially just wanted him to learn her story in the first person, Why didn't she just drop off the instruction box to Clay instead of Tony? Was she afraid that the mission would not be completed, would not bring the matter to an end? But no matter how Tony's argument, "apparently, I was the only one in school who didn't grope her ass," I was still weakly convinced in his favor. Unclear.
Oh, and this is a tape of Glue? This has been hidden from us for so long - is there nothing to hide?
There are quite a few repulsed comments from above that try to somehow justify Hannah's act. But, in fact, she succumbed to emotions and offended the person who trusted her, ignoring his feelings. The same thing that was done to her. But it didn't seem enough to her, and that Clay wasn't injured enough, so she also threw the tapes to him.
And the fact that a girl is so caught up in her distorted, painful worldview that she does not consider herself worthy of happiness and rejects it, in your opinion, is not a dramatic enough turn? Or, watching a psychological drama, did you expect that there would be some kind of SUPER-TWIST-HERE-IS-A-TWIST? Go watch Fast and Furious or whatever you're doing right now. It's true, I don't even want to be polite anymore.
And about her selfishness. Yes, she did not think about the feelings of Clay, friends, parents, because she was no longer able to, there was complete isolation in her own emotions, for her the experiences of other people no longer existed. You don't have to go far for an example: it's in this episode that she tells Clay to get out, even though she wants him to stay. A healthy person understands perfectly well that if you tell another person to "get out", he will get out. She genuinely doesn't have that understanding, and she really grieves when Clay leaves (which, by the way, can't be blamed on him).
I'm just discouraged by the comments on this series. Either schoolchildren write who, due to a banal lack of life experience, do not understand anything about human behavior and psychology, or just some small-minded people for whom this (or any) series is not food for thought, but "yyyyy, cool, it will go under a beer." It always seemed to me that the serial audience is much more thoughtful and analytical, but it turns out that they are not :(
@Supra: Well, yes, you're right - when I started watching, I expected a detective story, sudden twists and that's all. The series hinted at this from the very beginning, starting with the posters and ending with the slogan.
And it's strange that you use "Fast and Furious" as a reference for plot twists. I would rather remember the "Game of Thrones", well, you know better...
It seems to me that you have a serial snobbery. You think that some TV shows are for cattle, and watching them is fu. And other TV shows are for sensual reasoning, they make people better, open the chakras and dissect human souls. For some reason, it seems to you that this series is just like that, and to criticize it is to admit your own inferiority.
Unfortunately, I will disappoint you - this is never Dostoevsky. The psychology of this series is roughly at the level of tearful comments on Facebook and is based on a thin book for female teenagers. But that doesn't mean the show is bad, not at all. It's just not necessary to perceive it as a real story, or a typical situation, or to assume that it reliably reflects reality. That's not so. It was shot to entertain the audience and is a more "light" version of Netflix dramas for adults. He doesn't pretend to be more than that.
@Roland23: "Fast and Furious" here serves as an illustration of kintz, which does not require mental activity, and not advice on what to watch for the sake of plot twists.
This is not serial, snobbery, but ordinary HD, but seriously, of course, I evaluate a person by the quality of the media products they consume. And who doesn't? Don't you have any preconceptions about people who consider the Comedy Club to be the standard of humor, and the Ranetki to be the standard of drama?
I am not against criticism of the series, I am against arguments based on a misunderstanding of the plot, the actions of the heroine, and human psychology in general. Just because you didn't understand the series doesn't make it stupid.
I like Dostoevsky's works, and I like this series. For me, they reflect reality equally plausibly, only the level of psychology is different. And there is no need to chase after philosophy and depth - the story about the experiences of teenagers is much simpler. By the way, if you just thoughtlessly perceive the same "Idiot", you might as well declare Nastasia Filippovna to be a quarrelsome stupid woman, and Myshkin to be an indecisive fool. That's exactly how they behave, isn't it? :) That's what you're doing, refusing to analyze the actions of the heroine of this series.
But basically, you yourself wrote that the series didn't come to you simply because you expected something else from it.
@Supra: the fact is that this series is like a collection of all the problems of schoolchildren, most of which are ultimately tied to one character. That is, Hannah is really a collective image, and this makes her a perfect cliche, annoying everyone in general. She's like that boy from the educational booklets on housing, who tried smoking weed, skipping classes and calling girls names, and eventually died of heroin, AIDS and in prison. But in this series, there is also a romanticization of everything that happens, as well as a "combing" of motivation, which is why this particular scene looks like a reversal from an illustrated encyclopedia about relationships for schoolchildren.
"Jake wants to kiss Jane, but she pushes him away. Why do you think she did it? Choose the most preferred option from the suggested ones or write your own. Discuss with your friends or with your parents how you think Jake should behave in this situation..."
@Supra: The topic of "teenage soul tossing" has been around for as long as literature, television, and teenagers themselves have existed, reading the same "sufferings of young Werther.". The fact that someone didn't like this particular series doesn't mean that the person is insensitive or narrow-minded and doesn't like the topic itself.. It's just that the presentation in this series is so exaggerated, as if the script was really written by people with teenage maximalism, and as soon as you grow up a little and overcome it, many of the things shown in the series seem ridiculous. This is neither bad nor good, it shows the difference in the perception of "adults" and "children" - and I'm not talking about the physical age, but rather about the psychological one.. because an adult 30-year-old aunt can behave like Hannah. And just the same, the series is much more suitable for "schoolchildren without life experience" than for those who have already experienced a lot themselves, have some kind of life background and their own opinion, and all these plot psychoses do not seem justified to them because of the little things.. But your labeling just says that you don't have enough experience yourself.
@Supra: In general, all the problems come from the fact that Hannah had no business in life / hobbies / hobbies, and, as they say, "nature does not tolerate emptiness," so she went around "suffering a lot," filling her time with sad thoughts. But the most important problem was that she wanted to get a solution from the outside, that OTHERS would notice her, that OTHERS would be friends with her, that SOMEONE would help her... But as soon as she started recording tapes, she got, albeit briefly, a taste for life, a purpose, and an "occupation."..
And when I say this, I don't consider myself "stupid" for not understanding her vulnerable soul.. it's just a rational approach that was developed in the same teenage years, when there were as many problems as any child in transition..
@Roland23: To be honest, I didn't really understand what exactly you meant. The accumulation of problems (as well as the overly emotional reaction to them) was created in order to demonstrate the gradual development of suicidal moods, how else could it have been done? Well, the problems were spelled out according to reality, and therefore banal. As for romanticization, I might even agree, there is such a sin. But again, we should not forget that the series gives us a version of events through Hannah's eyes, and her version is not the ultimate truth. The episode with the discarded/pocketed note is proof of this.
@albinka_: Once again, what is shown seems so exaggerated because most of the information is provided by Hannah herself, the offended, depressed drama queen. But we, as viewers, do not have to perceive this with the same emotionality, it is better to perceive everything shown from the perspective of a parent, that is, to divide all these teenage dramas into two. Personally, I, a 26-year-old aunt, came to this series precisely because of the brilliantly shown development of the heroine's psychological state, from a positive sociable girl to a gloomy, touchy, depressed and withdrawn suicidal woman. And the fact that all this is shown not from the outside, but from the outside, for me personally, makes the series simply unique in its kind. Your reasoning on the topic "depressed because there is nothing to do" shows your complete misunderstanding of the concept of depression. I understand your rational approach, and if I were trying to associate myself with Hannah, I would also write about her stupidity and selfishness, but in the case of this series, it would be more correct for viewers to associate themselves with an outside observer, with the same Tony, for example.
@albinka_: Yes, and on the subject of the need for attention. She tried to get the attention of her parents and the principal as a last argument for life, but at the same time she prevented this argument from becoming reality. Do you remember why she decided not to tell her parents about her condition? Because it seemed to her that they were too busy, that it would be better without her. And she ran away from the director, deciding that no one would believe her story about rape, and it happened after the question "did you say no to the rapist?". It's just obvious that she is torn by the desire to get help, and at the same time from a fierce, exaggerated resentment against the whole world, from the feeling that no one will help her, that everything will only be better without her. And this duality of consciousness just perfectly illustrates how this disease actually proceeds.
@Supra: The question of "no" to a rapist is really important. Because if a girl said "no" at least once, and the one who bred her for sex, even if it was kind and unobtrusive, did not back down and continued the claims, then this is already qualified by law as sexual harassment, and if there was sexual intercourse - as rape.
@albinka_: Here's a plus about Hannah's lack of classes. The show is good because it made me remember my teenage problems and the methods I used to solve them. Hannah is probably so well-mannered or so arranged by herself that she is constantly waiting for help and understanding from others. And she's just suffering, whereas you need to grab every opportunity to distract yourself. Get involved in school projects, sports, volunteering, helping parents at the pharmacy, writing a book, talent, that is. And there's one more thing I can't understand. At the party, Hannah enters the house and everyone starts chanting her name. She smiles. Is this how outcasts and whores are greeted? I didn't understand. It feels like meeting a nice, popular girl whose arrival is welcome.
@Virginia: I agree! The film "Excellent Student of easy behavior" shows similar circumstances, but a completely different approach to solving them. I understand that there is a comedy, and here is a tragedy, but this is the essence of the differences in views on life (optimist / pessimist / realist).
The logic in Jessica's action is obvious, you really sympathize with her. His and Justin's characters and situation are the most realistic. But Hannah finally confirmed my opinion that she was hysterical and a complete fool. Someone wrote about depression here... Don't confuse teenage cunt-suffering and depression. They are similar only in some ways. Who's seen some shit in this collective farm is Skye.
@JLana: Really? What else are its causes called? It seems to any balanced person that everything in the series (except for the rape of Jessica) is not a reason to cut your wrists. Hannah screwed herself up. Do you really think that no one went through bullying at school and that Baker is the only one who is so unhappy?
The episode is simply heartbreaking! But I can't help but note that there were funny moments in it that further intensified these emotional swings - where Clay calls Tony Yoda, who is of no use; where Tony rolls his eyes at tarot; and when Justin was eating steak in the kitchen, and Alex was like, dude, you can choke! So, well, don't choke, or something ...))) Actually, I can't even figure out why, but Alex is fascinating.
There is a fine line in phrases like "I don't want to see you" and "leave." You don't know when to really leave and when to stay. And how it freezes out.
It's so easy to judge without feeling or experiencing anything (and God forbid), isn't it? Although you, gentlemen viewers, have been shown this story from all sides, in as much detail as possible. And there are those who think that Hannah is still a fool. Well, holy shit, huh.
I cried like I don't know who at the moment that could have been.
I don't even want to comment on Hannah, because ko-ko-ko will start right away, you don't understand anything. I just want to say one thing. In the entire episode, Skye said the most appropriate phrase: "Only weaklings commit suicide." And that's 100% true. As Ben Whishaw's character from Cloud Atlas said, suicide takes a lot of courage, and yes, it really does. Pull the trigger, climb into the noose, open your veins, realizing that this is the end, for this you really need "balls of steel", forgive me for being rude. But the very fact of such a selfish act is a huge weakness. You can call it natural selection, weak individuals die, and strong ones survive. The reason for my viewing: my friend hanged himself a week ago. And now he's a weakling. I'm mad at him because hardcore people move on. I know a man who doesn't have such supportive parents, who has experienced childhood trauma on the level of Logan Lerman's character in "It's Good to Be Quiet" more than once (!), who is humiliated, insulted, and confused with shit on a daily basis. And this person wakes up every day and just moves on. That's the power. And Hannah is just a drama queen.
@Sheeva: here you are trying to compare "who was worse off" by devaluing the traumatic experience. Zero empathy. But that's great, so you haven't personally experienced suicidal thoughts. But perhaps it's worth not being so categorical and just taking it for granted that understanding leads to the fact that, perhaps, people will be more caring, accepting and attentive to each other, rather than labeling them as "weaklings". Of course, I'm naive, but it seems to me that this is the point of the series. A depressed person is prone to negative thinking and no longer sees any other way out for himself, perceives all events through a negative filter, which is shown through Hannah's hysteria.
@JLana: I won't argue with you, your point of view has a place to be. The point of the series is really about support and attention to the environment, and after the incident with my friend and watching the series, I really wondered if there was anything I could have done. At 4 a.m. I was watching a TV series, and he got out of contact, threw a noose and hanged himself. If I had texted him, would he have changed his mind? This thought haunts me. It only makes sense to be like this while a person is alive, and when they are no longer... To me, he's a weakling. Maybe I didn't know what was going on inside him, but he had family, friends, and a supportive girlfriend.
It's just impossible to look at Jeff. every time he was on the screen, tears came to my eyes. how did a character who appears in the series indirectly and is practically not affected (the line was never revealed), was able to leave such an impression? I do not understand. there is a feeling that it was my friend too. such a sincere, radiant and kind person.
"you left as I asked. why did you leave?" aaaaaaaaa.....of all the dumb things Hannah has done, this is the dumbest. If she didn't want Clay to suffer and thought he was good, then why put him on one of the last tapes? "hey, you're great, but let's make you feel guilty for a couple of weeks and start going crazy, huh?))0)" if it wasn't for Tony, Clay would have jumped off. Of course, a lot of shit happened to Hannah, but the fact that she's a stupid egotist and this whole idea of revenge through tapes is disgusting doesn't change that.
I really want to fuck the scriptwriters and the author. She asked him to leave, several times. And then "why did you leave?" This is where the dancing with "typical girls" begins, "I do not know how I feel", "she refused me, but I know what she wanted." And so people come to misunderstand the concept of "no means no," which leads us to Jessica's situation. Once again, I hate the author and the screenwriters.
@Hannah_Abbot: damn, I would look at the fighting game of the scriptwriters and the author against everyone who wants to fuck with them)) it is still unknown who is who)
Great acting, great plot, amazing moment where Clay tells Hannah that he will never leave her. I cried like a child, imagining that this was happening to me. And anyway, in general, one of the best episodes of the series. 10/10
the only series that is really emotional and makes you empathize with the characters. Apparently, Jessica believed her own lie about being with Justin that night so much that the truth was too much for her to bear. But I still don't understand how it was possible to continue communicating with all these people if she initially (!) knew the truth. Clay's words in the "replayed" scene with Hannah in his mind were touching, but it just killed this "typical woman", they say, go away! Oh, asshole, you left, and I really wanted you to stay *facepalm*. Hannah clearly wanted Clay to feel guilty and responsible for her death. And this is extremely selfish! P.S. And Skye said something about suicide and weaklings
@Vakshja: Jess was drunk, she didn't remember everything, and then the trauma was pushed out and she really convinced herself to believe Justin that everything was as he says. And when everyone started talking about it, she gradually remembered, but apparently she wasn't sure what really happened, she didn't trust these memories.
It was a very emotional episode, it got to the bone. I feel very sorry for Hannah, everyone always thinks that people kill themselves because of one thing, but in fact, when so much falls on you, you can't take it anymore. And I'm sorry for Jessica too, what happened to her is just terrifying, you wouldn't wish it on anyone.
@ВоВсеДнепрянские: you correct everyone here so much, but do you think there should be 26 episodes in the series to "cover all the cassettes"? Even if you don't pay attention to watching, but only based on the episode titles, 1 side = 1 episode = 1 reason, and the reasons are 13, i.e. there are only 7 cassettes.
some kind of anti-advertising of gender (non-)equality. That's how you can take people with alternative logic like Hannah and Jessica seriously. No matter what you do, everything will be bad and everything is wrong. No, I'm not defending anyone, but I watched half of every episode through facepalm. although, it's probably worth making allowances for age. Only Clay, my Sweet Cinnamon Roll lt;3
Seriously? Is Clay's whole fault that he didn't figure out what Hannah's opinion was supposed to do? Okay, no one disputes that it was really hard for Hannah, that when you're in such a terrible situation, everything seems much worse than it is, and that she really needed help and understanding. But to bring the only person who treated you well to such a psychological state, to make him feel most guilty about the death of a loved one (despite the fact that he is only guilty when he said that some people should not be rushed or something like that) is disgusting. Imagine, Hannah, it's not just your feelings that matter. And people don't have to understand our desires without words, read between the lines, and meet our expectations, so she has a lot of ideas about what should happen.
"You shouldn't be on these tapes. I'm not right for you, I don't want to ruin your life. "I'd rather kill myself, exhaust you, make you paranoid. It would be nice if she yelled at him after what happened, and then talked to him when she cooled down. But no... I really feel sorry for Glue. I understand that after all the torture, she lost her temper and ended her life. But why add a loved one to all this shit? Didn't she think that this was how she would break him? This is really selfishness and a stupid act. She wanted to protect him, but instead she put a heavy burden on the man. She doesn't care anymore, but he has to live with it.
after watching episode 11, I just want to crack this Hana's skull, all 11 reasons that I saw are banal inflating out of a molehill, half of the white world lives with these "reasons", everyone goes through betrayal, humiliation, insults, well, most of it, at least, that's why life is given to us once. I really liked the idea, the acting is insanely cool, but I can't worry about the dumb main character, I'm furious that she breaks the glue. Okay, the reasons would be adequate, but it's fucked up here.
Even though Hannah says Clay is innocent, it makes him feel even more guilty towards her. As they say, it is better to regret what has been done than what has not been done, and all the situations before this only prove the correctness of this statement. Yes, many people hurt Hannah to one degree or another, but they did it, realized the consequences, learned a lesson for themselves, etc. And Clay did NOT do something that was very important for the situation as a whole - he did not support Hannah simply by his presence in her life as a friend or even more, just I didn't have the courage to make the first move. And to realize a missed opportunity, especially when it comes to a person's death, is just terrible. Probably, to hear that none of this is your fault is even worse than to find out that you are guilty after all. That's probably why you're more to blame than the others, or at least that's how you feel. Sad episode.
@juliagavrish: And that's how I thought about Jessica. She looked at the bear and quite clearly remembered the whole scene. I was sure she would shoot or drown Bryce in the Jacuzzi. I don't understand what Jess's plans are yet.
Is there any chance of doing what Hannah wanted in this situation? Gone -how could you listen to me! If he hadn't left, there would have been a reverse tantrum. Yes, the man listened to you, he deserved to take out his brain with your tapes.
The pool scene is incredibly heartbreaking. It made me cry. I feel incredibly sorry for Jess. It's like she's in a dead end. after looking at the society that surrounds her and how Hannah was bullied because of the photo, what would happen because of this is generally scary to imagine. and Justin, on the one hand, acted like shit, that he allowed this to happen and it was too late to quietly prevent everything. although he could have called his friends to help, and not leave Jess with this chuchan. Clay infuriates with his sentimentality and maximalism. He would like to learn from Jess how to cope with difficulties and manage emotions. She holds up better than anyone, I think. not everyone could do that. to carry such a "burden" on yourself and at least continue to communicate with this person as if nothing had happened.
I have more questions than answers after watching it. 1. Why say "leave" several times if you don't mean it? 2. How can you even be next to your rapist and communicate, smile?
@tankabanka: Jessica didn't believe he was raping her. She blamed it all on her alcohol intoxication, yes, she understood it deep in her soul, but until Justin told her, she stubbornly refused to accept it. The defensive reaction is so peculiar, trying to get the idea that Bryce might have raped her out of her head.
I hadn't shed a tear in all the episodes before, but the pool scene... Very strongly. Jess is very interesting to look at. A really strong character. In general, I absolutely agree with you.
@guncuks28: It was the school's fault, her peers bullied her, and she took everything to heart instead of holding a punch. And then the psychologist should already enter the "game" and help her figure herself out and not dwell on it, but apparently he didn't really succeed...
God, I'm sorry for that comment, I found it right now and I was really ashamed of those words. And my Russian language level was failing me at the time.😂
The pool scene is just gorgeous. The story of Jessica and Justin is very interesting, as is the work of the actors. And I like Justin more and more. Despite his asshole actions, you empathize.
Hannah is selfish. Jessica was raped, but it was Hannah (who sat in the closet and was silent, and then just went home) who suffered deeply, not Jessica. The guy left when you kicked him out, the bastard, he left, even though I wanted him to stay so much. She sees nothing but herself, believes that everyone owes her something. But never mind about her. Clay really believes her! She even considers herself guilty. Uh. I had a friend at school, we lived next door, went together from school. We kissed at graduation, then we went for a walk at night, he dragged me into the bushes (it's clear why), I ran away. Then we didn't communicate. Many years have passed, and I find out that he hanged himself on New Year's Eve because the girl he loved was happily dating someone else and wasn't going to break up with him. I wonder if he had recorded similar tapes, would I have been there? And my fault would probably be that I, being so cocky, didn't want to climb into the bushes with him? And it probably turned into a trauma for him, and he was afraid to talk to girls or something like that. Would that girl have been to blame for not abandoning her beloved boyfriend? What if she had? Would that guy have to hang himself and record his tapes? People are morons. Maybe I'm a fool if I let myself be like this with people. You see, I go fuck myself when they send me. I get mad when people just yell at me in front of everyone. I make good new friends, forgetting about the bad old ones. And let's all hang ourselves, cut our veins, given our delicate mental organization! We deserve it! And we'll record the tapes. I can imagine how my mother will cry, but what do I care about her, I'm a gentle pussy, it's the people around me who should worry about my feelings, not me about theirs. I'm going to make a good guy hysterical. Do you see how burnt out I am?? But nevertheless I like a lot of other characters, for example, Jessica and I wonder what will happen next in her story; Clay's mom, I wonder how the trial will go on; I like Alex. I'm waiting for your cons, kids)
I cried with Clay, I really feel sorry for him. I liked that they made a scene where Clay confesses his love to Hannah and comforts her. It was a pity that this scene wasn't real.
I also felt very sorry for Janstyn after that scene with my mother and her boyfriend, and, of course, after that confession by the pool. Yes, Justin is not the nicest person, he's done a lot of terrible things, but he doesn't have everything sweet in life either.
I definitely feel sorry for Jessica. She should have found out the truth sooner, not this way. She had to find out the truth herself, so to speak. She's a very strong girl.
Bryce doesn't seem to understand at all what a terrible thing he's done.
I was very confused by one scene... When Clay grabbed Skye's hand and asked her about the cuts, she said something like, "Suicide is a weakness, but that's what people do when they don't want to die." Well, I don't know, I don't know. In my opinion, selfharm is exactly the same weakness.
P.S. I see a lot of comments about why Hannah blames Clay, why she decided to make a tape about him and blablabla. People, how do you watch the series in general? What are you listening to? Hannah said she doesn't blame Clay for anything, she just wants him to hear her story. She knows perfectly well that she was stupid to send him away.
@vkusnyasheknedam: "I see a lot of comments about why Hannah blames Clay, why she decided to make a tape about him and blablabla...Hannah said she doesn't blame Clay for anything, she just wants him to hear her story.", All the claims that she put his tape almost at the very end, forcing him to consider himself guilty for 10 other recordings. This could have been avoided if she had recorded a separate tape for him, on which she could have chosen more correct words, rather than "it's not your fault, because you did what I asked," while saying that she didn't really want this, making him think that He is guilty of not persevering.
It's a very difficult series. It already reveals a lot to us. The actors play perfectly. I feel sorry for everyone in this story, anyway, it's a lesson for everyone and... Even for the watchers
I don't understand Hannah. She steps on the same rake: a good person reached out to me - I'll send him, a dubious one reached out to me - I'll hang out with him until everything ends badly. Why doesn't she try to analyze where the wrong decision was? Doesn't want to change anything about himself? Problems in life don't go away with a hairstyle change. And yes, she's so desperate for outside help, even though the only person who could help here was herself. At least ask for this very help, because the world could not have guessed that this help needed to be given.
Here's a cool series. The music is great, the intrigues are great, I watched 9 episodes a night, now I'm continuing, or rather finishing. I looked at it. Now skip it if you want, if it affects something and it makes it easier for someone. Let's skip the fact that I perfectly understand how everything is perceived at this age (I sometimes thought how cruel everyone is and life is ruined 😱) But! HANNAH NOT ONLY GOT HERSELF INTO TROUBLE, BUT ALSO AFTER DEATH (and what is it that I can't crack Clay's brain 🤔) That's how she messed with all the abusers, it's just tough. Some people deserve it, but some people don't even take a pinch of snuff. Now skip it," he said ✌
That's it, Hannah totally pissed me off. I felt sorry for her at first, but I don't anymore. "I'm so poor, think about my feelings." Don't others have feelings? Should everyone read her mind? That's right, Skye said
I've watched all the episodes, but so far only this one has caught on, it really turned out to be good and quite cute. Especially the episode of Hannah's dream, where she and Clay are together and everything is in pink tones. But of course there is a but. You can talk as much as you want about what Hannah experienced, what mental anguish and suffering, but she understood that Clay loved her, because she wrote it down herself, she understood that he was not like the others, even after the fact. But was it really impossible to record a tape specifically for him, which would be an epigraph to everything else? Since I even left notes on the map, I've done so much work. Of course, this was done by the scriptwriters for the sake of sufficient heat, but it still doesn't fit, we could have thought it over.
And of course, there are still more questions about Hannah's behavior, and sometimes I'm perplexed myself. But we must not forget that this is a teenager, especially since we are shown so many characters here and each one is different. Everyone has their own training for different life situations and attitudes towards them. Even if adults are not always consistent, teenagers are even more so.
@IslSay: I agree about a separate tape for Clay. She shouldn't have brought him into this situation. Include it in the list. By the way, no one mentioned such a moment. Clay has listened to almost all the tapes, about the rape of Jess, for example. And nothing. And when he started his own, he asks Tony: "Did everyone hear that?!" Look, he listened to the details of someone else's life without a twinge of conscience, he also carried out lynching, and when it came to his turn, everything changed.
Fucking how he comes to these conclusions. Why does he feel guilty? The series has descended into complete nonsense. Apparently understandable only to unbalanced teenagers.
At first, after watching episode 10, I decided that it was very emotional, soul-searing. But no. I hadn't seen 11 yet, it was just something. Not only is this Clay's side, but this whole rape situation. It's just a nightmare!!! I can't wrap my head around it, it's all terrible.
God, it hurt when he took her hands for the first time and they walked together, I'm 20 years old and I was so happy for the people in the series, it hurt me at the same time and my cheeks turned pink and I held my fists to my eyes.
God, really?How annoying this lack of directness of Hannah annoys me, I just have a burning fart, from the fact that I myself have a lot of examples in my real life, well, tell me you bitch, as it is!Uuuuuuh bombs
There has been a mixed attitude towards Hannah since the first episode (although the actress is very sympathetic) But fate has given me a greater opportunity for a happy life (in the person of Clay and his parents) than Alex, Zach or Courtney. It makes it all the tougher to see how many people's lives are affected by her suicide.
@donnydie: That's because you haven't seen the death scene itself, and the viewer knows in advance that this character is dead. But still, the truth is, Jeff's death is really emotional and I feel incredibly sorry for him.
my favorite episode, it turned out to be the most interesting. The only thing that surprises me a little is Hannah's logs, when she first tells Clay to leave, and then, they say, she needed him.
I looked at a few comments and realized one thing. I'm an insensitive creature. What about the series. The moment he finished listening to his tape, I was sure he would exhale with relief and dance with happiness. All I could think about was Clay? Seriously? Why the hell did you kill Hannah? What is your fault anyway? That you didn't stay??? Well, people can't read minds. She should have told him bluntly, and not after death to accuse him of leaving, you see. It was Hannah's fault, it wasn't good.
Hannah is so annoying sometimes. Did she hide in the closet when that girl was raped? She could have stood up and screamed. He's not some kind of homicidal maniac, but a classmate. It doesn't make sense. Why the fuck did I start watching this stuff. Hate
Hannah's plan to get her abusers out of the world and ruin their lives is, in principle, very interesting, but she did not take into account one essential detail: assholes both considered themselves innocent and would consider themselves innocent, but normal people would blame themselves for everything, even if they were not guilty at all.
so Justin has problems in his family, yes, he's an asshole at times, yes, they have a stupid situation with Jessica and Bryce, they all have their own problems in life, but they somehow cope, but Hannah and her tapes... all 10 episodes hinted to us that Clay was just fucking mean, that he was the reason she decided to do this shit, and I was really wondering what he had done to her, even though I knew perfectly well that it was okay that this Hannah would make a big deal out of a molehill again, and I wasn't fucking wrong, what a stupid thing to do, fuck Clay like that, for God's sake
@missannsh: She said at the very beginning that these tapes were for those who hadn't done anything, meaning Clay. I think she wanted to explain herself to him so that he would understand her.
Hanna: "HALF THE SCHOOL HATES ME, HALF THE SCHOOL RAPED ME, HALF THE SCHOOL IGNORES ME, I HATE THEM, I'LL RECORD THEM ON A TAPE" Clay: "Well, like love, that's it" Hannah: "YOU DIDN'T RAPE ME, YOU LOVE ME, I'LL RECORD A TAPE ABOUT YOU" Clay: "I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU.Ohhhh, I killed her, how bad am I"
What the fuck? What kind of idiot writes scripts there?!
I liked Justin in this episode, I finally said "it" out loud, I feel very sorry for Clay, with each episode it gets more and more incomprehensible for Hannah, she says to leave, but she doesn't want to, I don't understand her, I feel sorry for Clay and Justin… We found the list.... I wonder what will happen in the next seasons.
I liked the moment where Clay says that Hannah is lying and everything was different. After that, you pretend that everyone here has their own version of what is happening and you shouldn't believe one hundred percent only in Hannah's words.
I'm reviewing the season and once again, reading the comments, I'm convinced that the series is not for everyone at all. Many of the commentators are still asking, "so what, are these reasons for suicide, hysterical girl?" Others are yelling about how boring, drawn out, and so on the series is. In my opinion, these people simply should not spend their time on the picture, they simply are not able to get into the story, to understand that all people are different and we experience situations in different ways. But that's the main idea of the series, as far as I'm concerned... this is the first series in my memory where the comments are so unpleasant to read.
Finally, the most adequate character in the series is Skye! <3 She summed up the entire series with one phrase - "This is what you do instead!" Amen to that)
I still didn't understand why Clay was on the tapes, Hannah herself said that he didn't deserve to be on them, that she didn't want to ruin his life.It's funny, of course, because she's ruining his life with these tapes, he's so fucking insecure, not stable, plus he had mental problems before that, and these tapes are crushing him, just aaah, I just don't understand why torment the person you love. And Tony's a sweetheart!🤧
Discussion: Season 1, Episode 11 Join the Discussion
241p.s. how cool is it that Hannah's mother found the tapes!
Seriously, it's just an annoying character, sorry :)
I've seen guys who are assholes. Oh, he's fine, but I'd rather send him, I won't talk to him, I'll cry and open my veins.
Look at Jess, everything she's done in the last couple of episodes, she's done to get Justin to tell her the truth, she wanted to know for sure. But no one says, "Oh, I wanted to know, and now she's crying!"
It seemed unnatural in the beginning, but now everything is fine. You start to believe and empathize.
I'm more than sure that after watching "It's Good to Be Quiet," no one has any questions about why GG couldn't hook up with Emma Watson's character (!). He was head over heels in love with her, but he couldn't get close because of a deep-rooted childhood trauma. But here, Hannah's injury is very fresh, and others are not letting it grow. So draw parallels and understand. Oh, my God.
According to sabzhu: Clay is incredibly sorry. After a scene on the sidelines, I want to meet with the scriptwriters and punch them in the face. Then hug and cry. Then punch him in the face again.
at least someone here is adequate.
Well, suicide itself is so calculated. It took a lot of time to organize all this. I just don't want to empathize with her after everything.
2. Jessica was raped, but she didn't remember it. And Hannah was systematically bullied. Did you go through bullying at school? When you come to school every day and hear people whispering behind your back, making jokes about you. They didn't see her as a person, several guys harassed her, took pictures of her in HER room, in the most secure place, it would seem.
3. Hannah had a desire to find justice, which is why she systematized it so much. I'm not going to spoil episodes 12 and 13, but if even after them you don't understand why and why she organized all this and what was the last straw for her (right, the very last, because she sought help from others and didn't find it), then you should get into her skin better, feel It's all on yourself.
The point of the series is not that, but that teenage suicide is a very complex, ambiguous and uncomfortable topic that even adults cannot cope with (which we can see perfectly well from the example of adults in this series), let alone teenagers, who, in fact, are a product of society (and parents, of course). Hannah was a very sensitive teenager, and when she was pushed to the point, she completely lost her head. All these tapes are really stupid, because NONE of those who did something bad to her changed after them. They either admitted their guilt before that and tried to atone for it, or they shat themselves at the thought that adults would know about it and began to intimidate those who did not want to remain silent. It made sense to give the tapes to adults. And they had to be converted by an adult. That would make some sense.
Clay: You're like Yoda.
Tony: Are you the one who fucked up in height?
Although I don't see Clay's guilt, in fact, Hannah says that he's not to blame, but everyone else described his story as something completely terrible! However, he's just a teenager! And he was clearly not to blame for her death. And it was cruel of Hannah to include him in this list.... Clay is the one here who didn't give a damn about Hannah's words, who gave them meaning, who might have been able to reason with the rest of the characters, he was able to do what she couldn't....
In my opinion, Clay was as close to Hannah as anyone, so you shouldn't blame her for wanting him to hear her story, so to speak, in the first person...
the moment when Jessica tried to bring Justin down was very striking, and I finally understood why she was going to Bryce - so that Justin would admit that there had been a rape. She is very, very sorry, and let's admit that she is very strong.
P.S. Special thanks to the series for Tony, an amazing character (Unhelpful Yoda)
"I decided to kill myself because you're kind, decent, understanding, and listening." - that was my point of limit. We're back to the same bullshit we started with, and I just can't listen to this nonsense. that he's the drama king, that she's the drama queen. the perfect couple.
"now you've decided to die so that you can be reunited with Hannah forever?"
I'm just Tony. the only normal character here.
Hugging Tony and Clay, tynts-tynts-tynts. lt;3
tumblr is on fire at all: "No one can convince me that Tony is not in love with Clay".
Jennifer is really sorry, I've already said this. Justin let it happen, but you have to hate Bryce. when Justin broke out with "I FUCKING KILL YOU," Bryce didn't even defend himself, didn't try to break out - because he knows perfectly well what kind of shit he did.
Here's my comment from the previous episodes so you can understand how I feel about this.: https://myshows.me/view/episode/16025134/#c556141
I feel very sorry for Clay, even though Hannah says it's not his fault, but there's still bitterness in my heart.
if Clay wasn't originally supposed to be on this list, and judging by the diagram that Miss Baker found in the box (pro users can post a screenshot to complement it), if my eyes don't let me down, he's not there, because Hannah initially just wanted him to learn her story in the first person, Why didn't she just drop off the instruction box to Clay instead of Tony? Was she afraid that the mission would not be completed, would not bring the matter to an end? But no matter how Tony's argument, "apparently, I was the only one in school who didn't grope her ass," I was still weakly convinced in his favor. Unclear.
There are quite a few repulsed comments from above that try to somehow justify Hannah's act. But, in fact, she succumbed to emotions and offended the person who trusted her, ignoring his feelings. The same thing that was done to her. But it didn't seem enough to her, and that Clay wasn't injured enough, so she also threw the tapes to him.
She was a nasty girl, after all...
Go watch Fast and Furious or whatever you're doing right now. It's true, I don't even want to be polite anymore.
And about her selfishness. Yes, she did not think about the feelings of Clay, friends, parents, because she was no longer able to, there was complete isolation in her own emotions, for her the experiences of other people no longer existed.
You don't have to go far for an example: it's in this episode that she tells Clay to get out, even though she wants him to stay. A healthy person understands perfectly well that if you tell another person to "get out", he will get out. She genuinely doesn't have that understanding, and she really grieves when Clay leaves (which, by the way, can't be blamed on him).
I'm just discouraged by the comments on this series. Either schoolchildren write who, due to a banal lack of life experience, do not understand anything about human behavior and psychology, or just some small-minded people for whom this (or any) series is not food for thought, but "yyyyy, cool, it will go under a beer." It always seemed to me that the serial audience is much more thoughtful and analytical, but it turns out that they are not :(
And it's strange that you use "Fast and Furious" as a reference for plot twists. I would rather remember the "Game of Thrones", well, you know better...
It seems to me that you have a serial snobbery. You think that some TV shows are for cattle, and watching them is fu. And other TV shows are for sensual reasoning, they make people better, open the chakras and dissect human souls. For some reason, it seems to you that this series is just like that, and to criticize it is to admit your own inferiority.
Unfortunately, I will disappoint you - this is never Dostoevsky. The psychology of this series is roughly at the level of tearful comments on Facebook and is based on a thin book for female teenagers. But that doesn't mean the show is bad, not at all. It's just not necessary to perceive it as a real story, or a typical situation, or to assume that it reliably reflects reality. That's not so. It was shot to entertain the audience and is a more "light" version of Netflix dramas for adults. He doesn't pretend to be more than that.
This is not serial, snobbery, but ordinary HD, but seriously, of course, I evaluate a person by the quality of the media products they consume. And who doesn't? Don't you have any preconceptions about people who consider the Comedy Club to be the standard of humor, and the Ranetki to be the standard of drama?
I am not against criticism of the series, I am against arguments based on a misunderstanding of the plot, the actions of the heroine, and human psychology in general. Just because you didn't understand the series doesn't make it stupid.
I like Dostoevsky's works, and I like this series. For me, they reflect reality equally plausibly, only the level of psychology is different. And there is no need to chase after philosophy and depth - the story about the experiences of teenagers is much simpler.
By the way, if you just thoughtlessly perceive the same "Idiot", you might as well declare Nastasia Filippovna to be a quarrelsome stupid woman, and Myshkin to be an indecisive fool. That's exactly how they behave, isn't it? :)
That's what you're doing, refusing to analyze the actions of the heroine of this series.
But basically, you yourself wrote that the series didn't come to you simply because you expected something else from it.
"Jake wants to kiss Jane, but she pushes him away. Why do you think she did it? Choose the most preferred option from the suggested ones or write your own. Discuss with your friends or with your parents how you think Jake should behave in this situation..."
And just the same, the series is much more suitable for "schoolchildren without life experience" than for those who have already experienced a lot themselves, have some kind of life background and their own opinion, and all these plot psychoses do not seem justified to them because of the little things..
But your labeling just says that you don't have enough experience yourself.
And when I say this, I don't consider myself "stupid" for not understanding her vulnerable soul.. it's just a rational approach that was developed in the same teenage years, when there were as many problems as any child in transition..
As for romanticization, I might even agree, there is such a sin. But again, we should not forget that the series gives us a version of events through Hannah's eyes, and her version is not the ultimate truth. The episode with the discarded/pocketed note is proof of this.
@albinka_: Once again, what is shown seems so exaggerated because most of the information is provided by Hannah herself, the offended, depressed drama queen. But we, as viewers, do not have to perceive this with the same emotionality, it is better to perceive everything shown from the perspective of a parent, that is, to divide all these teenage dramas into two. Personally, I, a 26-year-old aunt, came to this series precisely because of the brilliantly shown development of the heroine's psychological state, from a positive sociable girl to a gloomy, touchy, depressed and withdrawn suicidal woman. And the fact that all this is shown not from the outside, but from the outside, for me personally, makes the series simply unique in its kind.
Your reasoning on the topic "depressed because there is nothing to do" shows your complete misunderstanding of the concept of depression. I understand your rational approach, and if I were trying to associate myself with Hannah, I would also write about her stupidity and selfishness, but in the case of this series, it would be more correct for viewers to associate themselves with an outside observer, with the same Tony, for example.
And there's one more thing I can't understand. At the party, Hannah enters the house and everyone starts chanting her name. She smiles. Is this how outcasts and whores are greeted? I didn't understand. It feels like meeting a nice, popular girl whose arrival is welcome.
Do you really think that no one went through bullying at school and that Baker is the only one who is so unhappy?
But I can't help but note that there were funny moments in it that further intensified these emotional swings - where Clay calls Tony Yoda, who is of no use; where Tony rolls his eyes at tarot; and when Justin was eating steak in the kitchen, and Alex was like, dude, you can choke! So, well, don't choke, or something ...)))
Actually, I can't even figure out why, but Alex is fascinating.
I have all.
I beg you!
It's so easy to judge without feeling or experiencing anything (and God forbid), isn't it? Although you, gentlemen viewers, have been shown this story from all sides, in as much detail as possible. And there are those who think that Hannah is still a fool. Well, holy shit, huh.
I cried like I don't know who at the moment that could have been.
I just want to say one thing. In the entire episode, Skye said the most appropriate phrase: "Only weaklings commit suicide." And that's 100% true.
As Ben Whishaw's character from Cloud Atlas said, suicide takes a lot of courage, and yes, it really does. Pull the trigger, climb into the noose, open your veins, realizing that this is the end, for this you really need "balls of steel", forgive me for being rude. But the very fact of such a selfish act is a huge weakness. You can call it natural selection, weak individuals die, and strong ones survive.
The reason for my viewing: my friend hanged himself a week ago. And now he's a weakling. I'm mad at him because hardcore people move on.
I know a man who doesn't have such supportive parents, who has experienced childhood trauma on the level of Logan Lerman's character in "It's Good to Be Quiet" more than once (!), who is humiliated, insulted, and confused with shit on a daily basis. And this person wakes up every day and just moves on. That's the power. And Hannah is just a drama queen.
A depressed person is prone to negative thinking and no longer sees any other way out for himself, perceives all events through a negative filter, which is shown through Hannah's hysteria.
The point of the series is really about support and attention to the environment, and after the incident with my friend and watching the series, I really wondered if there was anything I could have done. At 4 a.m. I was watching a TV series, and he got out of contact, threw a noose and hanged himself. If I had texted him, would he have changed his mind? This thought haunts me. It only makes sense to be like this while a person is alive, and when they are no longer... To me, he's a weakling. Maybe I didn't know what was going on inside him, but he had family, friends, and a supportive girlfriend.
I'm watching the series, and I'm stretching it out as much as I can, because I really liked autumn.
aaaaaaaaa.....of all the dumb things Hannah has done, this is the dumbest. If she didn't want Clay to suffer and thought he was good, then why put him on one of the last tapes? "hey, you're great, but let's make you feel guilty for a couple of weeks and start going crazy, huh?))0)"
if it wasn't for Tony, Clay would have jumped off. Of course, a lot of shit happened to Hannah, but the fact that she's a stupid egotist and this whole idea of revenge through tapes is disgusting doesn't change that.
I cried like a child, imagining that this was happening to me.
And anyway, in general, one of the best episodes of the series. 10/10
, then I can't even imagine how
because it's totally fucked up.
Clay's words in the "replayed" scene with Hannah in his mind were touching, but it just killed this "typical woman", they say, go away! Oh, asshole, you left, and I really wanted you to stay *facepalm*. Hannah clearly wanted Clay to feel guilty and responsible for her death. And this is extremely selfish!
P.S. And Skye said something about suicide and weaklings
Even if you don't pay attention to watching, but only based on the episode titles, 1 side = 1 episode = 1 reason, and the reasons are 13, i.e. there are only 7 cassettes.
No, I'm not defending anyone, but I watched half of every episode through facepalm. although, it's probably worth making allowances for age.
Only Clay, my Sweet Cinnamon Roll lt;3
Okay, no one disputes that it was really hard for Hannah, that when you're in such a terrible situation, everything seems much worse than it is, and that she really needed help and understanding. But to bring the only person who treated you well to such a psychological state, to make him feel most guilty about the death of a loved one (despite the fact that he is only guilty when he said that some people should not be rushed or something like that) is disgusting. Imagine, Hannah, it's not just your feelings that matter. And people don't have to understand our desires without words, read between the lines, and meet our expectations, so she has a lot of ideas about what should happen.
It would be nice if she yelled at him after what happened, and then talked to him when she cooled down.
But no... I really feel sorry for Glue. I understand that after all the torture, she lost her temper and ended her life. But why add a loved one to all this shit? Didn't she think that this was how she would break him? This is really selfishness and a stupid act.
She wanted to protect him, but instead she put a heavy burden on the man. She doesn't care anymore, but he has to live with it.
Sad episode.
And Hannah and Clay would look like:(
I feel incredibly sorry for Jess. It's like she's in a dead end. after looking at the society that surrounds her and how Hannah was bullied because of the photo, what would happen because of this is generally scary to imagine.
and Justin, on the one hand, acted like shit, that he allowed this to happen and it was too late to quietly prevent everything. although he could have called his friends to help, and not leave Jess with this chuchan.
Clay infuriates with his sentimentality and maximalism. He would like to learn from Jess how to cope with difficulties and manage emotions. She holds up better than anyone, I think. not everyone could do that. to carry such a "burden" on yourself and at least continue to communicate with this person as if nothing had happened.
1. Why say "leave" several times if you don't mean it?
2. How can you even be next to your rapist and communicate, smile?
>You're blaming half the city
>everyone blames themselves, quarrels, ruins their lives
?????
profit
This series, however, was better than the previous ones.
I had a friend at school, we lived next door, went together from school. We kissed at graduation, then we went for a walk at night, he dragged me into the bushes (it's clear why), I ran away. Then we didn't communicate. Many years have passed, and I find out that he hanged himself on New Year's Eve because the girl he loved was happily dating someone else and wasn't going to break up with him. I wonder if he had recorded similar tapes, would I have been there? And my fault would probably be that I, being so cocky, didn't want to climb into the bushes with him? And it probably turned into a trauma for him, and he was afraid to talk to girls or something like that. Would that girl have been to blame for not abandoning her beloved boyfriend? What if she had? Would that guy have to hang himself and record his tapes?
People are morons. Maybe I'm a fool if I let myself be like this with people. You see, I go fuck myself when they send me. I get mad when people just yell at me in front of everyone. I make good new friends, forgetting about the bad old ones.
And let's all hang ourselves, cut our veins, given our delicate mental organization! We deserve it! And we'll record the tapes. I can imagine how my mother will cry, but what do I care about her, I'm a gentle pussy, it's the people around me who should worry about my feelings, not me about theirs. I'm going to make a good guy hysterical.
Do you see how burnt out I am??
But nevertheless I like a lot of other characters, for example, Jessica and I wonder what will happen next in her story; Clay's mom, I wonder how the trial will go on; I like Alex.
I'm waiting for your cons, kids)
I cried with Clay, I really feel sorry for him.
I liked that they made a scene where Clay confesses his love to Hannah and comforts her. It was a pity that this scene wasn't real.
I also felt very sorry for Janstyn after that scene with my mother and her boyfriend, and, of course, after that confession by the pool. Yes, Justin is not the nicest person, he's done a lot of terrible things, but he doesn't have everything sweet in life either.
I definitely feel sorry for Jessica. She should have found out the truth sooner, not this way. She had to find out the truth herself, so to speak. She's a very strong girl.
Bryce doesn't seem to understand at all what a terrible thing he's done.
I was very confused by one scene... When Clay grabbed Skye's hand and asked her about the cuts, she said something like, "Suicide is a weakness, but that's what people do when they don't want to die." Well, I don't know, I don't know. In my opinion, selfharm is exactly the same weakness.
P.S. I see a lot of comments about why Hannah blames Clay, why she decided to make a tape about him and blablabla. People, how do you watch the series in general? What are you listening to? Hannah said she doesn't blame Clay for anything, she just wants him to hear her story. She knows perfectly well that she was stupid to send him away.
Now skip it if you want, if it affects something and it makes it easier for someone. Let's skip the fact that I perfectly understand how everything is perceived at this age (I sometimes thought how cruel everyone is and life is ruined 😱) But! HANNAH NOT ONLY GOT HERSELF INTO TROUBLE, BUT ALSO AFTER DEATH (and what is it that I can't crack Clay's brain 🤔) That's how she messed with all the abusers, it's just tough. Some people deserve it, but some people don't even take a pinch of snuff.
Now skip it," he said ✌
That's right, Skye said
Especially the episode of Hannah's dream, where she and Clay are together and everything is in pink tones.
But of course there is a but. You can talk as much as you want about what Hannah experienced, what mental anguish and suffering, but she understood that Clay loved her, because she wrote it down herself, she understood that he was not like the others, even after the fact. But was it really impossible to record a tape specifically for him, which would be an epigraph to everything else? Since I even left notes on the map, I've done so much work.
Of course, this was done by the scriptwriters for the sake of sufficient heat, but it still doesn't fit, we could have thought it over.
And of course, there are still more questions about Hannah's behavior, and sometimes I'm perplexed myself.
But we must not forget that this is a teenager, especially since we are shown so many characters here and each one is different. Everyone has their own training for different life situations and attitudes towards them.
Even if adults are not always consistent, teenagers are even more so.
But no. I hadn't seen 11 yet, it was just something. Not only is this Clay's side, but this whole rape situation. It's just a nightmare!!! I can't wrap my head around it, it's all terrible.
God, really?How annoying this lack of directness of Hannah annoys me, I just have a burning fart, from the fact that I myself have a lot of examples in my real life, well, tell me you bitch, as it is!Uuuuuuh bombs
If a girl says "maybe," it means "yes.";
If a girl says yes, it's not a girl.
What about the series. The moment he finished listening to his tape, I was sure he would exhale with relief and dance with happiness.
All I could think about was
Clay? Seriously? Why the hell did you kill Hannah? What is your fault anyway? That you didn't stay??? Well, people can't read minds. She should have told him bluntly, and not after death to accuse him of leaving, you see. It was Hannah's fault, it wasn't good.
— Okay.
"There's nothing to puke on, though."
- Well, eat.
- To throw up?
:)))))))))))
Justin has problems in his family, yes, he's an asshole at times, yes, they have a stupid situation with Jessica and Bryce, they all have their own problems in life, but they somehow cope, but Hannah and her tapes... all 10 episodes hinted to us that Clay was just fucking mean, that he was the reason she decided to do this shit, and I was really wondering what he had done to her, even though I knew perfectly well that it was okay that this Hannah would make a big deal out of a molehill again, and I wasn't fucking wrong, what a stupid thing to do, fuck Clay like that, for God's sake
The most correct phrase in the whole series, I think.
Hanna: "HALF THE SCHOOL HATES ME, HALF THE SCHOOL RAPED ME, HALF THE SCHOOL IGNORES ME, I HATE THEM, I'LL RECORD THEM ON A TAPE"
Clay: "Well, like love, that's it"
Hannah: "YOU DIDN'T RAPE ME, YOU LOVE ME, I'LL RECORD A TAPE ABOUT YOU"
Clay: "I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU.Ohhhh, I killed her, how bad am I"
What the fuck? What kind of idiot writes scripts there?!
Let's be honest, the saddest moment.
this is the first series in my memory where the comments are so unpleasant to read.
She summed up the entire series with one phrase - "This is what you do instead!" Amen to that)
They've shown Hannah's parents searching her room a thousand times, but only now have they found a piece of paper in the desk door??
And Tony's a sweetheart!🤧