@maqial: to be honest, because of her behavior and lack of education at some points, I generally thought she was 14, even went to Google the age of marriage in Judaism
@Katla: I have no idea why they ignore me when I didn't say anything bad about the actress/heroine/series at all. It was just a personal surprise, not an excuse to offend. I meant that her small stature, baby face and moments of ignorance of her own body looked to me like a director's move showing a very young age.
The curly-haired girl was too harsh. It is clear that Esty is in fact still quite a child, a little naive, ignorant of life. It was cruel to bring her down from heaven to earth like that
@LerKechan: you can prepare for rejection at the audition in very different forms: you can gently and privately say that Esty's level of training is insufficient and that she is ready for harsh comments from the commission, or you can lower her and humiliate her, and even assert yourself at her expense "here we have been plowing all our lives Where can you get to us!" The student is rude and envious, "it was hard for me - let it be for you." When someone finishes off a person who is already at the bottom, it's disgusting.
@jugheadfuckhead: She's just Jewish herself. Most likely, she is hostile to the Hasidim. Well, in general, the character is sharp. It all resulted in her letting the dogs loose on Esther.
Although their wedding is even more fucked up. I understand that this is a foreign culture, but.... I do not know how in the modern world people can voluntarily profess such a thing.
I'm processing weddings for a photographer of Jewish weddings in NY, and it really looks like this. A lot of traditions, costumes, crowds of people and that's it. I don't understand how either...
@tevladka: damn, it seemed very beautiful to me.) it is the ceremony itself and these rites/rituals that, of course, does not negate all ethical problems
But who can explain to me why Grandma dropped the phone? Doesn't she like that her granddaughter ran away? But what about the feeling of mercy and compassion?🤔
@MaryaSe: it seems to me that the point is that it is difficult to expand the boundaries of your perception so suddenly. The older generation often reacts very unambiguously when young people do not behave in the way they think is right. Even if he loves you more than anyone in the world. After all, most "adults" have the idea in their head that they always know what is best for their child. In any community, there is nothing to idealize. It just manifests itself in different ways. And when thinking more flexible acceptance comes... faster. It often takes time and, of course, the desire to understand the other person, which, of course, is not there. For now or at all, it's hard to say. Plus, being offended and angry (and this is what grandma feels first of all when she realizes that the granddaughter, in whom she invested so much love and care, whose life she tried her best to arrange, spat on it and went to her mother - who is also a traitor- disgraced in front of other members of the community, showed disrespect, and I also dared to call), people rarely think correctly. In fact, Grandma knew that Esty was being searched for, and the main thing was to find her, but her own emotions and feelings prevailed. And this is more likely to be true than a situation where a person lived for 60 years believing in clear principles, and then suddenly immediately took and understood and forgave an unreasonable child who spat on all these principles.
@Laari: Actually, yes, it will also affect grandma now. their family in the community, as I understood it, was not very respected because of their mother. and now her daughter is behind her — they will decide that their family is completely bad
@darthtatyan: and I think grandma was afraid to give away her granddaughter, she was afraid that they would figure out her granddaughter, because it was clear that now esty would lay out where she was, and grandma already knew that they were going after Esty, the only thing to say was that they were already looking for you and don't say anything more.
@MaryaSe: I think Grandma was just confused...just a shock reaction, scared. Perhaps they will further show her attitude to what is happening. Well, rules, rules, rules...
I actually thought that grandma, on the contrary, does not want this life for Esty. On the other hand, it may be that she wants to protect herself so that later the Wolves will not be unleashed on her, which she knew and did not tell. Or yet, as we remember from the last episode, she was not informed that her granddaughter was missing, and she is just in shock, does not understand what is happening.
@vk575309: she said at the wedding that her dream was to see Esty married) it doesn't look like a person who wants a "different life" for her granddaughter
All alone... It's a pity insanely. And Grandma quit, really... Couldn't you just forgive leaving? I'm running to watch the continuation of the touching story.
@RainbowKelpie: This tradition exists in some communities, but in fact the hair is shaved off after the wedding and at will. And, of course, not in the presence of a crowd of people. There are a lot of inaccuracies in the series.
@full_fusion: no, the hair is shaved off, because unclean can penetrate through women's hair, this is the channel through which it can harm a woman, and accordingly her husband and children. By the way, the Slavs also had such beliefs, so married women wore a headscarf. It has nothing to do with the oasis
@RainbowKelpie: They shave their heads in Orthodox communities because it's more convenient to wear a wig (sheitel). After marriage, a woman's hair, according to the laws of the Torah, can only be seen by her husband, but wigs are not forbidden (although in even more rigidly religious communities they may prefer scarves or at least wigs made only of artificial hair).
About submission is not entirely true, it is not a broad gesture, but a complex concept of hair in Judaism as a whole. That's how men can't cut their hair at the temples. For a woman, this is a manifestation of modesty.
@KateSand: not really on the topic - how do they twist these paces like that? do they twist it on a curling iron every day?)) Everyone has such curlicues.
@van_nilla: Some people just have curly hair. But as far as I know, they twist yes, and on a curling iron, and wet hair on a cloth or paper. But if we talk about everyday life, they are not always so beautifully twisted, of course, although the paces, if they are worn in general, are carefully monitored)
I wonder how they feel about it from the aesthetic side? Yes, everyone's tastes are different, and all that, but I personally have never perceived bald men. I think there aren't many men who like bald women either. Is there really no discomfort in your personal life?
Now only the husband can see the hair. Either she hides them in a handkerchief, or at her husband's request she cuts them and hides them under a wig. And considering that at that time wigs from natural hair were banned, only artificial, then a haircut even made it easier to wear such hot wigs. In fact, the book describes all the traditions in a very accessible way.
after the first episode, I spent half the night reading about traditions and, in general, about the lives of the Orthodox, in order to better understand all this Tin, of course. And I can't stop watching it!
I also think it's great that Esty found at least some semblance of company on the first day. You can't exactly call her weak-willed and weak, she is quite enterprising
She yelled at Yankee and Moishe. Phone, where is Esty?? :D
Yes, that's what an alien culture means... Some traditions look very strange and unclear. A wedding, for example, does not cause positive emotions, although everyone seems to be happy... But from the outside... No, it's really weird))
It looks in one go, but there are a lot of cranberries for the sake of creating an oppressive atmosphere. People in the Brooklyn ultra-Hasidic community are not so dark that the girl does not know that she has a vagina, and the guy did not know how to use a smartphone (although local rabbis do fight with non-kosher mobile devices). There is a film "Fill the Void", it is also about an 18-year-old girl in the Satmar Hasidic community, where Shidukh and the like are much more reliably shown.
@id4092163: Maybe it's an artistic effect, or maybe some of this was mentioned in the book that the series was based on. It would be interesting to find a book and read it, if it is translated into Russian
@id4092163: ignorance about the location of the vagina was mentioned in the book — the book is autobiographical, and the author sets the tone for the truthfulness of the story, so there is no reason to attribute it to artistry.
For years, suppressed sexuality, lack of sexual education (even in the company of peers, as often happens in Russia) make themselves felt. The boys in the yeshiva, according to the heroine's future husband (in his autobiography), masturbate each other — so they have at least some idea about their anatomy. And here we should not forget that it is more difficult for boys during puberty not to notice this, if we talk specifically about anatomy and biology. But girls also find themselves studying each other in a sexual sense (there are hints about this in the book in the story about the camp), but this bypasses the heroine — she is too much in books and reflection. So I readily believe that everything was like that.
Plus, later in the book we are talking about the psychological problems of the heroine during sex, which are perfectly explained by such a "developmental delay".
It's hard to look at Orthodox traditions, I read about them for full effect... Uh, I can't ashtriset! It does not fit into my head that this is in our time, and even not in forests and villages, but in large cities. I was lucky enough to rent a hostel in London in an area where only Orthodox Jews lived, then I saw enough of these fur "hats" like a "tire" and the same dresses for women.(
All this leaves such a depressing impression for me. Although I wonder what will happen next.
It's been a long time since I cried in front of a movie... I've never worked on TV shows like that, as far as I remember. Very well shot, since I was so impressed)
The first two episodes are just the beginning, I hope they will continue to promote the plot... it's a pity that they decided to narrate the Miniseries according to book rules, it's already half over and you still don't know how to treat it.... it's good that the topic is not hackneyed, in any case it's interesting
@BeataKatamadze: Judaism is different, especially in the modern world. As in any religion, there is an extreme degree of religiosity — this is exactly what is shown here. So do not think that all Jewish believers live in such a framework :)
She is, of course, terribly naive, but it was impossible to lower her to the ground in such a rude form, maybe it was necessary to somehow find the right words
@ShaneRay: знаете, вот одну и ту же вещь можно сказать совершенно по-разному. Это была именно грубость. Когда говорят про прямолинейность и правду-матку, не стоит забывать и форме выражения этой самой правды.
I can't imagine how painful it is in my soul when your dreams are broken in an instant. In other things, she herself, without a single support, is also in a foreign country, poor girl 😔💔
Считаю, что девушка сказала всё по факту, но это не то, что стоит говорить на дружеском ужине, скорее когда ужин закончится и все расходятся по домам и вот она высказала своё мнение не испортив при этом вечер всем... Ну я хз конечно
История безусловно невероятная, но я не могу смотреть на то, как живут эти ультраортадаксальные евреи. Это *издец) Они там, как в каменном веке... Такие бредовые традиции, господи простите.... Это ужас... Я уважаю другие религии, но лично мне даже смотреть на всё это тошно)
@Lone_Wolf_Crazy: всё-таки большинство людей в мире конформны, так что полагаю, что большинство в сообществе всё это устраивает, они не знают о других способах жить (ну, или не задумываются). иначе бы эти общины давно распались. тут нет смысла судить по себе: это же совершенно другое восприятие, когда ты растёшь в этой общине и все вокруг тоже живут по этим традициям. уверена, что можно искренне верить в это всё и радоваться, что живёшь по заветам. ну, и подозреваю, что западная культура, жизнь и обычаи, их могут точно так же искренне пугать и отвращать, как нас пугают ортодоксы.)
Да это очень жестко, даже слишком. Я почему-то всегда думала, что только у Мусульман такая вера жесткая, на счет евреев никогда не задумывалась. Такое ощущение от сериала, словно касторки выпила. Плюс неуместные слова "тебе никогда не быть такой как мы и не догнать нас". Это может быть как правдой, так и не правдой, учитывая, что Эсти нигде не училась толком, и играла для себя, и ради своего мужа ей пришлось бросить то, к чему лежит душа.
Считаю очень показательным моментом всю эту серию для тех, кто придерживается мнения, что все люди сами творцы своей жизни и любой способен добиться успеха, мол, при рождении все равны. Но это нетак, совсем
Я вот удивилась, как она собралась поступать в консерваторию после частных уроков игры. Когда она сыграла, то сомнения оправдались. Хорошо, что ей сказали правду, надо понимать, чего от тебя ждут, а она бедная жизни не видела, откуда ей это знать…
Как интересно с правилами в общине: правила строгие и нарушать их никому нельзя, но если нужно сохранить традиции и видимость всеобщего послушания (вернуть беглянку) — то некоторые правила некоторым людям нарушать можно, раввин дает добро. Такие милые двойные стандарты. А еще удивительное неуважение к чужим традициям и нормам поведения: шантаж и угрозы другому человеку, чтобы добыть нужную информацию (ну им же очень надо, ведь их потребности и правила важнее ваших) или по-мелочи — плевать косточки на тротуар.
Похоже , ортодоксы - чистое фарисейство. А еще, прямо чувствовала , когда Эсти бежала по улице плача, сейчас наткнется просто в лоб на Янке и у меня было ощущение , что он ее будет покрыать и скрывать от своего сопровождающего. Похоже, что он неподдельно переживает за нее и ничего плохого ей не желает.
Наверное, никто не будет спорить с тем, что на земле живут люди разных взглядов, религий и конфессий. И нарушать их покой, если они не нарушают ваш, не стоит.
the baby deserves happiness (I didn't care when I found out that she was only nineteen)
I meant that her small stature, baby face and moments of ignorance of her own body looked to me like a director's move showing a very young age.
...Thank you for partially "enlightening" me before the wedding...
Although their wedding is even more fucked up. I understand that this is a foreign culture, but.... I do not know how in the modern world people can voluntarily profess such a thing.
I don't understand how either...
that, of course, does not negate all ethical problems
, but one wedding is worth it
After all, most "adults" have the idea in their head that they always know what is best for their child. In any community, there is nothing to idealize. It just manifests itself in different ways. And when thinking more flexible acceptance comes... faster.
It often takes time and, of course, the desire to understand the other person, which, of course, is not there. For now or at all, it's hard to say.
Plus, being offended and angry (and this is what grandma feels first of all when she realizes that the granddaughter, in whom she invested so much love and care, whose life she tried her best to arrange, spat on it and went to her mother - who is also a traitor- disgraced in front of other members of the community, showed disrespect, and I also dared to call), people rarely think correctly. In fact, Grandma knew that Esty was being searched for, and the main thing was to find her, but her own emotions and feelings prevailed. And this is more likely to be true than a situation where a person lived for 60 years believing in clear principles, and then suddenly immediately took and understood and forgave an unreasonable child who spat on all these principles.
Well, rules, rules, rules...
On the other hand, it may be that she wants to protect herself so that later the Wolves will not be unleashed on her, which she knew and did not tell.
Or yet, as we remember from the last episode, she was not informed that her granddaughter was missing, and she is just in shock, does not understand what is happening.
it was unexpected)
About submission is not entirely true, it is not a broad gesture, but a complex concept of hair in Judaism as a whole. That's how men can't cut their hair at the temples. For a woman, this is a manifestation of modesty.
In fact, the book describes all the traditions in a very accessible way.
Tin, of course. And I can't stop watching it!
I also think it's great that Esty found at least some semblance of company on the first day.
You can't exactly call her weak-willed and weak, she is quite enterprising
She yelled at Yankee and Moishe. Phone, where is Esty?? :D
It would be interesting to find a book and read it, if it is translated into Russian
For years, suppressed sexuality, lack of sexual education (even in the company of peers, as often happens in Russia) make themselves felt.
The boys in the yeshiva, according to the heroine's future husband (in his autobiography), masturbate each other — so they have at least some idea about their anatomy. And here we should not forget that it is more difficult for boys during puberty not to notice this, if we talk specifically about anatomy and biology. But girls also find themselves studying each other in a sexual sense (there are hints about this in the book in the story about the camp), but this bypasses the heroine — she is too much in books and reflection. So I readily believe that everything was like that.
Plus, later in the book we are talking about the psychological problems of the heroine during sex, which are perfectly explained by such a "developmental delay".
I was lucky enough to rent a hostel in London in an area where only Orthodox Jews lived, then I saw enough of these fur "hats" like a "tire" and the same dresses for women.(
All this leaves such a depressing impression for me. Although I wonder what will happen next.
If you're interested, of course)
Unfortunately, this is common.
Thanks for your reply
иначе бы эти общины давно распались.
тут нет смысла судить по себе: это же совершенно другое восприятие, когда ты растёшь в этой общине и все вокруг тоже живут по этим традициям. уверена, что можно искренне верить в это всё и радоваться, что живёшь по заветам.
ну, и подозреваю, что западная культура, жизнь и обычаи, их могут точно так же искренне пугать и отвращать, как нас пугают ортодоксы.)
Такое ощущение от сериала, словно касторки выпила. Плюс неуместные слова "тебе никогда не быть такой как мы и не догнать нас". Это может быть как правдой, так и не правдой, учитывая, что Эсти нигде не училась толком, и играла для себя, и ради своего мужа ей пришлось бросить то, к чему лежит душа.
А еще удивительное неуважение к чужим традициям и нормам поведения: шантаж и угрозы другому человеку, чтобы добыть нужную информацию (ну им же очень надо, ведь их потребности и правила важнее ваших) или по-мелочи — плевать косточки на тротуар.
Послать её надо куда подальше было