As I already wrote in the comments to the first episode, I am impressed by the society depicted in the series. But it seems that the black characters of the series are only aristocrats somewhere in the 2nd generation (Simon's father said that the King gave them the title, although of course it can be interpreted in two ways; the same was said about the Jeffries family). At the same time, society is shown to be so calm, balanced, although in real England the aristocracy resisted even the appearance of "nouveau riche" merchants in its ranks. Of course, this series is not a springboard for some serious analysis, but still.
@joy_composer: In one episode, it flashed that everything changed when the king married a black woman. In general, it is logical that if the queen rules the ball, then the attitude towards the "new" aristocracy will be more favorable. But, of course, this aspect of the series has not been worked out at all, although it would be interesting. Still, yes, the attitude towards the "nouveau riche" was noticeably different, and the disparaging attitude towards other races is an important component of the British Empire (otherwise there would be no empire: it is somehow not comme il faut to conquer equals). On the other hand, I understand why the creators of the series decided not to focus on this
@Kilkenni: Yes, you made a good point about the reigning queen of the ball, I hadn't thought about it. However, the Queen in this case is only the wife of the king... although it is generally difficult to reason here without having some kind of theoretical justification, the queen in the series resembles some kind of king in scale, even a teenage girl at a ball can get an audience with her.)))) As for the decision not to focus attention, maybe it was worth somehow delaying this moment in time. Although then there would be no storyline with the king and queen, although in the first season it is quite vague. Not a line, but just strokes.
@Kilkenni: Curiously, I had not heard about this before, but it turns out that the discussed move of the screenwriters is inspired by the theory available to historians, however, not too popular, that Queen Charlotte was a woman of color. Allegedly, contemporaries noted her characteristic features in appearance: wide nostrils and large full lips, they even found an ancestor, presumably responsible for the "black" branch in the queen's family tree. However, historians do not have any evidence.
@joy_composer: Historians have no theory. You should not read the fictions of the American press. Such myths are widespread among blacks to raise the "prestige of blood" and to combat racism. The entire family tree of European royal houses has been widely studied and is known to the smallest detail.
@Heichel: let me figure out what to read myself. :) what is your rebuke here for, to convince me (and those who will read our comments later) that I was wrong to believe in the conspiracy theory from the yellow press? Did I write somewhere that I believe in her? My comment above is a squeeze from the Wikipedia article about Queen Charlotte and in my opinion it makes sense to mention it in relation to the series.
@Heichel: of course you react this way, do you happen to have this historical personage as a great-grandmother? I clearly wrote in the initial comment that this is an unpopular opinion (since you don't like the word theory so much) and those who promote it have no evidence. For your part, you could simply write that this is the essence of the nonsense of the American yellow sheets, and not a theory, but instead you attacked with aggression and accusations. I say again that I am not giving anything away for any truth. You probably don't understand the first time, because you revel in your knowledge of history and read diagonally what they answer you. Let's separate the flies from the cutlets after all.
@Kilkenni: in the 19th century, there was a scandal if the king married not a princess of royal blood, but "only" an aristocrat, so marrying a representative of a fundamentally different class is not at all imaginable from a historical point of view. what can we say about a representative of another race, who were still slaves in the colonies. plus, giving titles to yesterday's slaves is not only a humiliation for the racist-minded aristocracy, but also a limitation of their power (titles are money, land and influence in society - no one will want to share this, as you yourself noticed with regard to the nouveau riche). so if there was a king in England who decided to marry yesterday's slave, then either he would have been swept away by the rebellious aristocracy (and in England this is a proven process), or his relatives would have quietly finished him, understanding what this would lead to. however, this series is not about historical authenticity, so it's better to imagine that we are watching a fairy tale :)
@pon4ic: The fact is that nowhere did it say that blacks in this universe were slaves. At least, specifically these blacks (which does not negate the problem of another class, however). And as noted above, the problem of racism in this society is not so acute. But it is clear that in this fairy tale, trying to somehow explain this aspect by looking into history is useless
I have read the comments below to yours. Everyone expressed their thoughts very interestingly. But it is worth saying that Netflix does not follow the canon regarding the race of heroes. The introduction of African-American characters even into the role of a Slavic character is caused by tolerance) I am very glad that the world is changing now, even if (off topic) I would like to see another actress for the role of the Little Mermaid)
Simon and Daphne are, of course, complete trash. They can't touch each other, so as not to start copulating on the spot, and at the same time they freeze each other out. And the main idiot here is Simon. But here's what's interesting, the housekeeper said that she advised his wife to "have a strong seed." Lol kek cheburek, what if Simon is not his father's son? Then that line really died, and everything will be zbs.
@i-lena: Sex without consent is rape, and there was no sign of consent. Having sex to conceive a child without the consent of both parties is literally reproductive violence. Marriage does not mean unconditional consent to any form of sex. When someone unilaterally decides not to use protective equipment (piercing a condom) this is contraceptive sabotage, and now it can be criminalized.
@Hannah_Abbot: No, well, the consent to sex was one hundred percent here, you'll review that scene. He jumped on her very enthusiastically, and when she straddled him, he was obviously glad. Why didn't he throw it off when he realized that he was about to cum is a question. He could have done it easily. It's a matter of two seconds. So hz, what kind of rape are we talking about here.
And Daphne wanted to make sure that was exactly what he was trying to avoid. He did not tell her directly what was the matter, and that he did not want children, did not tell her, said that he could not.
The initial consent to sex can be interrupted at any time, as soon as one of the partners no longer agrees to this sex -- it was interrupted as soon as he said wait) Quite a sexual and reproductive abuse
@CatsGrin: Consent to sex is yes, consent to children is unequivocally no. Instead of talking about it, Daphne decided to "find out by force."
Why didn't you throw it off? Well, because at such a moment he could have done it carelessly. And it could well become physical violence. He didn't want to hurt her under any circumstances.
After talking about vows, I wanted to applaud Daphne, how she shut Simon up, ahah) In general, it's sad that Simon won't open up to her in any way, he loves her.
God, how annoying Daphne's obsessive desire to give birth, knowing how women died during childbirth at that time. I reassure myself only by the fact that they do not have the Internet and have nothing to do except procreation.
@milalexandrovna: from the very beginning, it was clear that Daphne really wants children, she herself said that she likes her big family and she dreams of the same
@Juli18: but at the same time, Daphne agreed to marry without children. her anger at her husband because of the reason not to have children is understandable, but the result is the same - she promised him that he alone, without children, would be enough for her.
@MilkySkin: Well, she accepted him for who he is, who CANNOT have children, and not the conditions set. But in fact she was deceived. He was the one who misled her, not the one who changed her shoes.
@milalexandrovna: This is not an obsessive, but a normal desire of a young woman, for whom family is clearly very important, and who has just got married.
@CatsGrin: this is a normal desire only if there is something to choose from =) and there is nothing to choose from - either live with your parents in disgrace until old age or get married and be kind to give birth. but she has a lot of servants and she will never have to take care of the children beyond the time she wants. at least two minutes a day, at least three hundred) in such conditions, it is quite adequate to see toys and positive balls of happiness in children)) but the way she masterfully ignores the reality of the danger of childbirth, of course, is discouraging. and once again shows how small and ignorant she is. He believes in his exclusivity and immortality.
@Evelynx: well, she kind of found things for herself without children, here is exactly the situation that she WANTED children and a full family, she even said about it that she wanted a big family. And in those days, not all women wanted to become a mother, there was simply no protection, so they got pregnant. And the maternal instinct is a powerful thing, if it is present, then all the dangers seem nonsense to you, and you are ready to do anything just to become a mother.
@milalexandrovna: Yes, first of all, there really is nothing to do. Secondly, is she 16? maximalism and "I want everything right now, family from the picture" and all that. Thirdly, it would always be possible to build a shelter for abandoned children and deal with them at least all day. Fourthly, "then" no one from the nobility bothered with children. We saw them for dinner and tea. Until it was time to teach about marriage.
In one of the episodes, Penelope said that Lady Bridgerton is the mother of 8 children, I'm already on episode 7 and still can't find 8 children))) like 4 sons and 3 daughters, or did I miss something?
@bakishova29: In episode 4, Eloise was writing a letter to Francesca (16 minutes, if anyone is interested), her younger sister came up to her back then and asked what she was doing. Eloise replied that she was writing to Francesca, what an annoying bore Hyacinth was. Francesca is just the 4th sister. I thought she was studying somewhere or visiting. We should see it next season.
Shondaland cannot exist without drama)) Simon should have already opened up to Daphne, and solved this problem with conversations. although she can also be understood, she initially said that she wanted a big family, and in such a large castle, when her husband is constantly busy with something, she will quickly get tired of talking to the maids, but still without his consent, roughly speaking, it's too much to rape, and he clearly outlined everything to her on the shore They say you and I are a family, that's all
And now I wonder what Colin will do? will he leave Marina or go against everyone 🤔
@Rina_Quinn: Shondaland was based on dramas)) I saw a screensaver in the first episode and approximate plots have already appeared in my head. She knows how to play an exciting melodrama!
@podsolncem: an iteration. Despite the fact that she married him to herself and promised that she would agree to live without children. I am always amazed at the ability of such madams to turn out everything for a man and leave him to flow with guilt 🤷
@podsolncem: Those who died in childbirth were usually those who had a narrow pelvis or a tendency to bleed, as a rule. Considering that, the weight of infants at that time was about 2200-2500 maximum. I will keep silent about sanitation. Daphne's mother gave birth to 8 children, how many children there could have died in infancy is not known. but PELVIC heredity is on the face
and yet, during the last scene, I shed tears, the characters are just impressed, although yes, fortunately, there is still no child, since not both spouses agreed to this
It's not like that for Daphne! Either a husband should be found sooner, faster, or now a child should be conceived immediately. Damn, what's the hurry, hello? I'm already tired of my tantrums.
It's a pity that Simon can't tell his story to his wife until the end. Only in fits and starts.
@Yuliyatabaka: What else should she do? Since childhood, she has been prepared for the fact that the main goal of her life is to get married successfully and start a family, which is what she does. Plus, the sooner you start giving birth, the more children you have and the more likely it is that not everyone will die. And that you won't die while you're young and healthy.
@Yuliyatabaka: I mean, where's the hurry? This is not 2021, where you can take your time and not get married at all. It's a shame to remain an old maid, especially with younger sisters, who also need to be settled the sooner the better.
@Ksenia_Oo: considering that this is Shondaland, then it could be ... Pa-pa-pa-pa-PA... Miscarriage! XD After which she will not be able to have children!
I like everything, but this conflict out of nothing about children is very annoying. That's really give Daphne children right away, maybe if they had lived for a couple of years, Simon would have changed his mind himself, but this imposition looks disgusting((
I'm sorry, of course, but Daphne is starting to annoy. She almost raped her husband, all she does is demand children, she does not want to understand and figure out why her husband is so set up, does not want to give him time, but only stomps her foot. I understand what a time it was for women, I understand that she wants children, but it all looks ridiculous, considering that Simon warned her in advance, and she agreed with this outcome, even got used to this idea, and in this episode she sobs. Yes, not the best reason not to have children, but not the worst either. I am glad that the child, after all, has not been made yet. And in general, I'm tired of looking at their quarrels and copulation, I want to look at other characters already
@vita_dr: учитывая то, что это любовный роман уровня бульварного чтива - тут просто по канону обязаны мнение любого мужика насильно изменять тонким убеждением (сарказм) и изящной (сарказм) манипуляцией. и в итоге мужик обязан раскаяться, что был не прав и вообще никакое его мнение не имеет значения, если его жена не одобряет.
Какая сильная сцена в конце! Вообще, персонаж Дафны - лучшая героиня ever 🙏 Часто женские персонажи раздражающие и нелогичные, тут же мое восхищение! Безупречна!
Разговор Дафны и Герцога после того как она пришла с вечера замужних дам, просто шикарен. Она шикарна. Её слова ему об отце и о его клятве - это просто итог моих мыслей на протяжении всех серий после такого как мы узнали о клятве! Только у меня в голове и на языке было очень много эмоций и мыслей в перемешку, а она все собрала воедино и подытожила!
Ребят, вы так интересно осуждаете Дафну за ее горе отсутствия беременности и возмущение обманом (да, «не могу» и «не хочу» — это обман). Как будто Саймон обозначил ей все условия совместной жизни ещё когда у неё была куча вариантов.
Нет, он долгое время флиртовал с этой юной девушкой, которая ничего не знает об отношениях и реальном мире — даже сам признался, что его сначала бесило то, какая она молодая и наивная. Саймон знал, что он не сможет дать Дафне счастливую жизнь, но все равно окучивал ее и первым сорвался в саду.
Взрослый и опытный человек в этой ситуации Саймон. Он довёл их отношения до точки невозврата (сад), и уже только на грани смерти (своей) и вечного позора и невозможности найти мужа после скандала (Дафны) признался, что никаких детей у них не будет. В контексте «теперь я, конечно, твой единственный шанс, но я тебя слишком уважаю и поэтому ТОЛЬКО СЕЙЧАС говорю тебе, что не видать тебе со мной заветного семейного счастья». И даже тут, при ОЧЕНЬ запоздалом признании, он ей солгал.
Короче, не перевирайте события так, будто Дафна изначально знала, на что шла. Она не знала. Она видела, что герцог в ней заинтересован, и не предполагала, что у него есть тараканы о мести отцу. Она узнала о принципах герцога в плане детей только тогда, когда других вариантов у неё в принципе-то не оставалось. Это не добровольное осознанное согласие. Узнай она раньше, скорее всего, выбрала бы принца и жила бы счастливо.
@mr_coconut: Мне Саймон не нравится с первой серии, он же козел и ни разу не показал обратного. Почему им тут так восхищаются? Только из-за смазливого лица и показной сексуальности?
Элоиза очаровательная! Я понимаю, что актриса сильно старше юной девушки, роль которой играет, но Боги всех миров! Девушка очаровательна!
И мне бесконечно жаль Дафну. Яркая, наивная и пронзительная... Боги, она же абсолютно не была подготовлена к жизни! Она многое не знала и... как же хочется её обнять.
It reminded me of twilight, when Edward didn't want a baby, and Bella needed one, but seriously, Daphne just needs to give Simon time. He wasn't going to get married either))))))) and here it's just a honeymoon, and all she thinks about is the kids.
Полностью согласна с мнением и обидой Дафны. Такое впечатление, что Герцог-малолетний ребёнок🤷♀️ Языка типо у него нет вообще, обьяснить нормально хотя бы не дано свою позицию и её причину изначально. Если уж на то пошло, то он на дуэли сказал, что он НЕ МОЖЕТ иметь детей, а не что он не хочет и не имеет значения знала она откуда дети берутся или нет, если бы даже она знала, то согласилась она до того как имела возможность понять истинную причину, будь то болезнь или хотелки. И он ещё типо и обижен?!😠
Whistledown is either Penelope (which I'm leaning towards) or a dressmaker. Penelope is well-read, she can explain herself well, she goes to all receptions, but she was not at the royal one, therefore she had nothing to write about him + she knew about Marina's pregnancy. The dressmaker, on the other hand, does not go to receptions, but has big ears, a lot of women go to her to dress and, obviously, gossip is discussed there every minute, and she also measured Marina and could well have noticed how her stomach was growing.
The most repulsive character in the whole story is Marina. they are trying to help her, to meet her halfway, but she takes everything for granted and still dares to say something in her position.) what kind of egoist to look for, the audacity is completely insane
watching the series for the second time and after the story of Queen Charlotte, I already smiled when Daphne ran into the garden at a tea party and there was this wall, the very wall that Charlotte did not climb🥹💔
In the end, I felt so sorry for Daphne... She realized that this was her only chance to become a mom. (But of course we're going to have a happy ending, well, without it!) By this episode, I'm already completely in love with Daphne and drowning for her. She tries to move the rocks with her influence, resolve childhood traumas, and help others. She wants a healthy relationship with her husband (and is blown away by the stories of other married women). Daphne yelled at her mother, then she was ashamed, then they were already hugging at the end of the episode (because her mother is a healthy woman, and their family relations are healthy - an example of this is that the eldest told Colin that you have a family, and you will always be supported). I also laughed so much when she came home drunk after a casino with married ladies and was like, WELL, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO PUT UP WITH OR NOT. She also looked so funny!) I also liked her dress from the queen's afternoon reception. With some pink moments in the back. Interesting.
About the gossip girl. I don't understand, it was all too obvious in this episode that Penelope smiled every time Eloise mentioned gossip girl. But I'm still not ready to think that it's not Ms. Bridgerton. It was as if gossip girl was saying a lot of things that Penelope couldn't know yet (but I don't remember exactly, and this is the first time I've seen it). I didn't think that Eloise would be made such a beauty! I can't take my eyes off! I'm really looking forward to her story!
I'm waiting for Marina. I was hoping she'd wait for her George... And then damn it, you know what. On the other hand, what could she have mixed up there? Seasonings?
In the episode where the Duke is talking to Daphne's brother at the club, it's so funny to see that the shots were taken from different takes and the beer in the glass increased and decreased in volume)
Discussion of the 7 episode of the 1 season Discuss this episode
112(Although Benedict was pleased with his "I'm not bound by the rules of society! ... Please do not tell Mother."))
however, this series is not about historical authenticity, so it's better to imagine that we are watching a fairy tale :)
And Daphne wanted to make sure that was exactly what he was trying to avoid. He did not tell her directly what was the matter, and that he did not want children, did not tell her, said that he could not.
Why didn't you throw it off? Well, because at such a moment he could have done it carelessly. And it could well become physical violence. He didn't want to hurt her under any circumstances.
In general, it's sad that Simon won't open up to her in any way, he loves her.
but she has a lot of servants and she will never have to take care of the children beyond the time she wants. at least two minutes a day, at least three hundred) in such conditions, it is quite adequate to see toys and positive balls of happiness in children))
but the way she masterfully ignores the reality of the danger of childbirth, of course, is discouraging. and once again shows how small and ignorant she is. He believes in his exclusivity and immortality.
Thirdly, it would always be possible to build a shelter for abandoned children and deal with them at least all day.
Fourthly, "then" no one from the nobility bothered with children. We saw them for dinner and tea. Until it was time to teach about marriage.
Francesca is just the 4th sister. I thought she was studying somewhere or visiting. We should see it next season.
I kind of like the duke, but still such a dissonance for me, my brain just refuses to perceive it , even as fiction...
And now I wonder what Colin will do? will he leave Marina or go against everyone 🤔
I saw a screensaver in the first episode and approximate plots have already appeared in my head. She knows how to play an exciting melodrama!
I think Elaisa may be the "gossip girl"...
I'm already tired of my tantrums.
It's a pity that Simon can't tell his story to his wife until the end. Only in fits and starts.
This is not 2021, where you can take your time and not get married at all. It's a shame to remain an old maid, especially with younger sisters, who also need to be settled the sooner the better.
A very cool series, have a nice evening!))
Eloise and her spontaneity and refusal to walk the path that society has prepared for her is love.
Вообще, персонаж Дафны - лучшая героиня ever 🙏 Часто женские персонажи раздражающие и нелогичные, тут же мое восхищение! Безупречна!
Нет, он долгое время флиртовал с этой юной девушкой, которая ничего не знает об отношениях и реальном мире — даже сам признался, что его сначала бесило то, какая она молодая и наивная. Саймон знал, что он не сможет дать Дафне счастливую жизнь, но все равно окучивал ее и первым сорвался в саду.
Взрослый и опытный человек в этой ситуации Саймон. Он довёл их отношения до точки невозврата (сад), и уже только на грани смерти (своей) и вечного позора и невозможности найти мужа после скандала (Дафны) признался, что никаких детей у них не будет. В контексте «теперь я, конечно, твой единственный шанс, но я тебя слишком уважаю и поэтому ТОЛЬКО СЕЙЧАС говорю тебе, что не видать тебе со мной заветного семейного счастья». И даже тут, при ОЧЕНЬ запоздалом признании, он ей солгал.
Короче, не перевирайте события так, будто Дафна изначально знала, на что шла. Она не знала. Она видела, что герцог в ней заинтересован, и не предполагала, что у него есть тараканы о мести отцу. Она узнала о принципах герцога в плане детей только тогда, когда других вариантов у неё в принципе-то не оставалось. Это не добровольное осознанное согласие. Узнай она раньше, скорее всего, выбрала бы принца и жила бы счастливо.
Помимо обмана было сокрытие до удобного момента
А ещё я все жду, что Дафна предложит Марине забрать ребёнка, если первой он так нужен, а второй нет.
И мне бесконечно жаль Дафну. Яркая, наивная и пронзительная... Боги, она же абсолютно не была подготовлена к жизни! Она многое не знала и... как же хочется её обнять.
Очень надеюсь на то, что всё будет хорошо.
Такое впечатление, что Герцог-малолетний ребёнок🤷♀️
Языка типо у него нет вообще, обьяснить нормально хотя бы не дано свою позицию и её причину изначально.
Если уж на то пошло, то он на дуэли сказал, что он НЕ МОЖЕТ иметь детей, а не что он не хочет и не имеет значения знала она откуда дети берутся или нет, если бы даже она знала, то согласилась она до того как имела возможность понять истинную причину, будь то болезнь или хотелки. И он ещё типо и обижен?!😠
The dressmaker, on the other hand, does not go to receptions, but has big ears, a lot of women go to her to dress and, obviously, gossip is discussed there every minute, and she also measured Marina and could well have noticed how her stomach was growing.
Intrigue
Daphne in 5 seconds: I want you
By this episode, I'm already completely in love with Daphne and drowning for her. She tries to move the rocks with her influence, resolve childhood traumas, and help others. She wants a healthy relationship with her husband (and is blown away by the stories of other married women). Daphne yelled at her mother, then she was ashamed, then they were already hugging at the end of the episode (because her mother is a healthy woman, and their family relations are healthy - an example of this is that the eldest told Colin that you have a family, and you will always be supported).
I also laughed so much when she came home drunk after a casino with married ladies and was like, WELL, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO PUT UP WITH OR NOT. She also looked so funny!)
I also liked her dress from the queen's afternoon reception. With some pink moments in the back. Interesting.
About the gossip girl. I don't understand, it was all too obvious in this episode that Penelope smiled every time Eloise mentioned gossip girl. But I'm still not ready to think that it's not Ms. Bridgerton. It was as if gossip girl was saying a lot of things that Penelope couldn't know yet (but I don't remember exactly, and this is the first time I've seen it).
I didn't think that Eloise would be made such a beauty! I can't take my eyes off! I'm really looking forward to her story!
I'm waiting for Marina. I was hoping she'd wait for her George... And then damn it, you know what. On the other hand, what could she have mixed up there? Seasonings?