s02e01 — Future Days

@the_fallen_devil: Держи в курсе

@Xpillz: If you don't like someone's comment, just scroll on. But being rude and insulting is already too much, somehow ugly.

@the_fallen_devil: If he was as tall as she was, no one would have noticed the substitution.

@the_fallen_devil: well done, of course)

@the_fallen_devil: 😂😂😂

@AlexSok18: I haven't watched the first episode yet, I'm waiting for the release of all seven and I'll take a look at once.
But of course, it's soooo difficult to resist.

@AHMET: Um, most of this episode wasn't in the game. I'm not judging, but I'm just saying that it's not frame-by-frame at all)
It happened before the beginning of the second part, when Ellie says that she was offended by Joel. But I'm glad that this background was shown.

@terekhina: I looked at the recap, now everything fits. Just one question, the psychologist said that Joel killed her husband, this didn't happen in the first season, did it?

@KudasaiYo: there was no. Eugene wasn't in season 1, but he was in the 2nd part of the game, but there he died off-screen from absolutely natural causes. again, all sorts of awesome ideas from the series scriptwriters and Druckmann. I'm not talking about the dissonance, where Joel was whimpering like a softie 5 minutes ago, but then he behaves like the last asshole with a therapist, supposedly a flint who doesn't know how to talk about his feelings, ignoring her words that she has a doctor and not even talking to her about her husband's death, considering circumstances. yes, in principle, his arrival to her looks strange after such innovations. how strange and improbable Joel turned out to be in the series...

@innundir_skinni: I think Eugene got infected and he killed him. But he killed her somehow rudely, which she didn't like.

@niggapig: Yes, it's obvious. She said it herself, "I understand that you owed me," but again, it's some kind of weird cheap drama. then why did he go to her for a session, when there is clearly such an obstacle between them now? Why can't the psychologist let go, does she live in this world for 5 minutes? Well, then give up Joel as a client because of your personal dislike. and, again, the character's writing is very strange. the screenwriter can't make up his mind and tries to sit with one booty on two chairs: one minute Joel is a mimic, openly whimpering and sharing his feelings, then suddenly he's flint again and shows a lack of empathy. She's bipolar....

@innundir_skinni: psychology just let me go. She used this as an example, suspecting that Ellie wasn't just stuck in transition, but that something was wrong with Joel. And she showed that you can speak directly. There is no cheap drama here.

@pinta_vodki: Firstly, saying that you hate the patient is at least unprofessional. secondly, she could say that in principle, without reducing everything to a personal drama. this is not a fiction for the sake of an example. she said in PLAIN text that she hated him and could not forgive him, she did not let go. moreover, she natively emphasized at the beginning of the session that she drinks whiskey, because for the first time in 41 years she meets a doctor without her husband. what is this, if not an obvious attempt to stab Joel intentionally? and how she looked with satisfaction when Ellie chased him out of the common room like a leper. do you really believe that a person who hates another person will sincerely want to help him overcome personal problems?)) Well, and thirdly, considering Ellie's character in the series, what is Joel wrong about? She's really acting like a child. 19 years old is by no means a transitional age, by the way, but for some reason Ellie behaves exactly like a teenager, although she should have grown up much earlier, especially in such a world.

@innundir_skinni: How infuriating! Not only does a trio of 30-year-olds behave the same way at work, but Deb is stuck in adolescence!

@WFurman: Well, look, people like it for some reason. For some reason, this Ellie is a straight one-on-one for some people with gaming, lol. however, the game did not flaunt its immunity, constantly did not do everything out of spite, did not savor violence like chikatilo, did not tell about new infected people as a favor, and did not fool around in outings, accepted the rules of the game and the authority of more experienced survivalists. I actually started with how Ellie Ramsay was acting out, but at the same time, in the very first outing, hD was bitten
in real life, and there really are enough people stuck at the 9th grade development level, but when you come across something like this, you're ready to smash your forehead from a facepalm, and here it supposedly is It must even be presented as a positive character. I never thought I'd be rooting for Abby, but in the series, I guess I'll have to))

@Mechtaev: I'm watching with subs. But I looked at what's in the voice acting:
Dubbing - What do they roast a bear on? On the Grizzly"
Author's and other voice-overs - What can you call this devoured bear? Gnawed"

@Mechtaev: I know it's not from Ellie, I just combined two things that I liked in the series)
It's hard to adapt, but they chewed it up.

@Mechtaev: Do you know what happened to him? He was grizzled. (HDrezka)

@RAMIL: in my translation: - what are the names of bear ribs? Medvegril.

@Mechtaev: in one of the dubs, there was a good option about "What are the names of fried bear ribs? Grilzli."

The way she whispered to Ellie……

@sad_targaryen: Ellie didn't have a single chance not to immediately fall in love with this tiny creature to the very tomatoes))

@Orsha111: no one has these chances left)

@АiyoreNyаrk0-sаn: The one who danced and kissed with Ellie

@niggapig: Do you think Joel's overprotective attitude is just a cover for his selfishness, and Ellie's rebellion is an inadequate but necessary response? Let's face it, without rose-colored glasses. Your view is a typical excuse for teenage hysteria under the guise of “fighting for freedom.” Ellie is not a heroine, but a girl who does not know how to control herself. Joel, with all his joints, really dragged her through hell, and instead of appreciating, she rolls up scenes. Yes, he controls her, but in a world where every step is a risk of becoming fodder for a nutcracker, this is not about selfishness, but about survival.

Overprotective, egoistic. Joel is not “helping himself," but trying to keep Ellie alive. His fear of losing her is not a fad, but a lesson burned out by his daughter's death. You can call it excessive, but in their reality it's rational. Ellie, instead of proving her independence by deed, stamps her feet and risks both of them. Her “inadequate” reaction is not a necessity, but a blunt danger. Do you want freedom? Show me you won't screw up without supervision. In the meantime, she's acting like a moody child, Joel is right to keep her in line.

Ellie is not a victim, but a problem. Her rebellion is not about growth, but hormones mixed with stubbornness. Joel is not a saint, but without him she would have been dead a long time ago. So don't romanticize her antics—it's not a struggle for independence, but an inability to understand that his “help" is the only thing that keeps her alive. Your comment is just an attempt to put a nice wrapper on teenage dope. Joel saves, Ellie whines. Point.

@romanzaho: Back in the first season, it was shown that Ellie, in solo, can heal Joel, deal with the cannibal boss, and take down a deer.
Ellie is now 19 years old, and she has to face the fact that Joel lied to her, ignored her desire to invent a vaccine, and committed a mass shooting of innocent people because he loves her sooo much. It is impossible to digest this adequately at the age of 19. Her emotions are one hundred percent justified here.

@niggapig: Five years, Carl! She's been walking around with this insult for five years! At the age of 19, this is not even teenage behavior, but childish behavior...

@niggapig: Does she already know that he killed the fireflies and prevented them from making a vaccine out of her? I haven't played the game, please, no spoilers))

@dieluise: We don't know for sure if she knows yet.

@niggapig: Let's be clear - she could! At 14, when she looked at the world adequately.
Now it's a bad mix of hormones, selfishness, permissiveness and dizziness from success. She really believes that if a big guy punches her in the face, it will only make her nose hurt more.

Invent it?! She's not even a guinea pig, but a mistake of nature.

Innocent people... a la others. Mengele. Putting a teenager under the knife... Nude, nude.

It's not the first time two inadequate fools who don't have enough adrenaline on their ass have created a game... I don't understand how normal people agree to go on patrol with them.

@Liyuuuuunder: the moment with medlyak was such a moment, Ellie's train of thought was clearly visible in her head, NO WAY, it's happening)))

@Liza: Oh yeah

@Liza: I think she had something like "Everyone is crazy about you" in her head at that moment. You could have chosen absolutely anyone in this town. Why Me??"

@Orsha111: because potatoes =)

@ron1: Apparently Dina from Belarus =)

@Liyuuuuunder: I wanted to fry some potatoes

@АiyoreNyаrk0-sаn: and fry it))

@KratoFear: giraffes run 60 km / h

@dubolom: Hares run even faster, there are still firearms in this world for such things.

@Orsha111: The skin of a giraffe is 10-20 mm thick (like that of a hippopotamus or rhinoceros) – this is a natural bulletproof vest.

It's cool that Dina can arouse such childish jokes in Ellie.

@niggapig: Yes, it's the first season that she's like this now + she either behaves like a child or screams. There is almost no calm state. They made her too emotional. He reacts too strongly to everything.

@Fhsys: She's a Dora traveler by the way

@fb942393: well, super, if so

@Laedde: If you claim that someone's argument is weak, you should first make sure that you at least understand the opponent's position and that your counterargument serves as proof of the thesis. Your arguments don't prove the thesis. Let's start in order: you refute the argument that you need to stop complaining about miscast and treat the show as a separate work through
1. Nobody really complains about miskast, except Ellie. This is not true - malaxitos is literally talking about Dinah's miscast. If you were following the news on the series on MS, you would have remembered the complaints about miskast Abbey - https://myshows.me/news/9093/keitlindiversigraet-ebbi-vo-vtorom-sezone-seriala-po-the-last-of-us/ . Miscast is a very clear sign of the discussions that users are discussing about the show versus the game.
2. This is not a separate work at all, but really a film adaptation.- do you think so based on your conclusions, or from the perspective of the authors' intention? Because the authors think differently: Drakman says in an interview: "We need someone to really capture the essence of those characters.... We don't value as much, Do they look exactly like the character with their eyebrows or their nose or their body?' Whatever it is. It's not anywhere on the priority list, but it's below a bunch of other things that we consider. In another part: I don't even know if it's worth mentioning where we landed because I think that's part of the fun for people familiar with the game to see how we approached that challenge in the show. I will just say that we gave it a lot of thought and tried different things. There are some deviations of where we place things.". In short, Druckmann and Meisin want to tell their story, true to the spirit of the original (that is, more homage) - but even their details of appearance do not really care, much more about ideas.

3. " With its own modifications, yes, but completely canonical."First of all, you use "canonically" as opposed to what I say (and then you write it down into some "anti-canonists"), but I I have never claimed that the show is not canon. My point is that it's not so important whether it's canon or not, it should be taken separately. I'm saying this from a spectator's perspective. The viewer has different interests than the creator. And if you really listen to the creator, then even in this case they say that they want to convey the spirit, the essence of the idea"a hero for one is an enemy for another", revealing and supplementing this idea. From my point of view, the second part of the game implemented this idea poorly, for the sake of cheap tension, it destroyed the delicate balance that it had built in the first part. I am not ready to reveal this position now, because it will be spoilers for those who have not played or watched. But the bottom line is that they are given a second chance to do it more honestly and holistically, at least in the context of what was built in the first season.
4. Although I did not claim that the show is not canon, because it is not as important to me as it is to the viewer of the show, any attentive viewer and player will prove that the show is uncanonical IN the STRICT DEFINITION OF canon. What is the canon? A collection of stories, characters, and topics raised, arranged in a certain sequence, as part of an official narrative recognized by the creators within the same universe. In this strict definition, TLOU shows and TLOU games cannot be canon because they differ in plot details and in the fates of individual characters. If the second season of the show could continue the first part of the game without any problems, then yes. As an example, the Watchmen show is canonical to the comic book universe, but uncanonical to Snyder's film (Alan Moore would now come to the comments and cover me with shit for his complimentary assessment of Lindelof's controversial creation, but we're talking about continuity and the logic of the universe).
So, the show is an adaptation, an expanded, modified and augmented interpretation of the same events. And the viewer's task is to evaluate such an interpretation independently from the point of view of how the work reveals the topics raised, how completely and organically it works with the characters in itself. Then, as a whole product, you can compare gaming and TV attempts in terms of successful disclosure, but this is a completely different comparison.

5. Let's take another popular film adaptation, The Witcher, as an example. A fan of the series since 2006, he has read the main series three times (though not yet two late novels), played hard drives for one hundred hours each (350 hours in three, every school, and NG+ also completely closed), watched the series several times (the first PPE 4 times).
"They absolutely distorted the plot, even the main backbone.". Yes, it's true. But the show tells a story, not continues it like games do. Although the games can't be called canon either, because they threw away the final idea of the cycle, the integrity that was achieved by the finale, following the wishes of any fan in the genre.
And watching it both as a separate work and as a film adaptation is still a pleasure."I doubt you're looking at The Witcher as a separate work, at least you're not arguing for it. From my point of view, it is satisfactory - Slavic mythology was thrown out of it (Alik Sakharov quarreled with Hissrich because of this), the alignment of forces and characters of the characters were changed, Geralt himself was pushed into the background (Cavill left because of this), but they tell the story they want to tell. I think that books and games (I emphasize, each separately) do this task better, but as a separate story, it works as a whole. If you take the netflix show as a whole at a very low level of quality, for me it is in the top ten on streaming.
6. "a departure from the canon of the book when creating a game that turned out even better." - this is a very strange statement, considering that even in the third part of Sidi, the projects exploit Sapkowski's ideas in a plot, even when telling new stories, they essentially repeat themselves. The games are great, but they are inseparable from the ideological component of the books, the lesser evil, the beast people, laissez-faire, and so on.
7. For me personally, the canon and the non-canon are very well revealed in the sequel trilogy, and here I am entirely on the side of the canonists, as you say. Because it's about the same medium (cinema), within the same universe, it's about a direct continuation of the story, which crosses out in detail the story of the first six parts from Lucas. At the same time, the Mouse cancels the expanded universe, recognizing it as a non-canon! There's not enough chamomile tea in the world to calm my rage.

@Skyscore: That's not really how they bomb here on MS, but since the release of the first season to this day, if tlou is discussed somewhere, it's always a bombing about miscast. What's the matter, here someone has already written below or above about Dina's face from the game, that they want to " examine and study" tyry pyry blah blah blah.. I swear, I've read exactly the same comments, word for word, on different platforms, on different channels, from different people. I don't know, maybe this is some kind of local gambling joke, but it looks like someone dropped their opinion somewhere, picked up everything and took it apart into quotes.

@Liyuuuuunder: in fact, the problem of the series is not miskast. it's in the mis-prescribing. Ramsay's Ellie is 180 degrees different from Ellie. Pascal's Joel is a completely different Joel, and that's not the problem. that these are not the right heroes. if ludo-narrative dissonance may occur in the game, then adaptation should minimize this, but it enhances it. all characters will be downgraded, making them even weaker. Hell, they even made the already defenseless Sam even younger, deaf and dumb, and they attributed leukemia to him. Well, it's just a piece of cheap drama driven to insanity, but seriously. the level of drama and character writing in the game and in the series are simply cosmically different. and not in favor of the series, unfortunately.

@Skyscore: don't think about it for me, I've read all the Witcher books, and played, and watched the series, and I absolutely don't intertwine them. This does not remove the fact that I do not like the way the characters in the TV series the Witcher are written and their motivation, the perception of it as a separate work does not play any role here. And it also doesn't mean that I can't complain about miscast in terms of matching the declared setting - the northern people with Slavic motifs, or the same famous feint from Netflix with Anne Boleyn.

@Laedde: Forget it, nitakusik just loves the actors and the general agenda. At least they look into their eyes, it's all God's dew =)

@Skyscore: Thanks, I went and voted.

@GoroheS: It's not really cool to attack underage characters in the game.

@Poisonishes: Oh, I got it, thanks a lot!!
The moment with the remnants of memory and some kind of intelligence was completely forgotten

@anasky: and it seems to me that the game itself did not directly mention this, this is information from the analysis of the type of "10 things that you did not notice in the game")

@Poisonishes: even if I've read/watched it somewhere, I've definitely forgotten it, I'll go refresh myself in my memory)
thank you enivey

by the way, if you recall the last episodes of the Walking Grandfather (if you don't like them from the point of view of quality, take the latest issues of the graphic novel), everything has healed there too, zombie attacks have become as common a threat as tornadoes for residents of Florida

@Skyscore: /// 25 years since the apocalypse is enough time to climb one step higher on Maslov's pyramid.///

And that's right. They're not one-dayers. Such a healthy community has enough strength for security, and for the maintenance of a paramedic, and for a school, and for a library, and for a theater with dancing. There's electricity over there. Start the water supply and sewerage system. Stud farm.

@Skyscore: and what are the needs for an import-substituted pyramid?

@Citokos: Naive.
The warranty period for storing cartridges in APPROPRIATE conditions is 10 years. The average life of a barrel is 2000-3000 rounds of smokeless powder. The engine life of a gasoline generator is 3-5 thousand operating hours ~ six months. How much can a paramedic do without basic medications? Water Supply is a specialist in water purification. Horses are saddles, saddles are leather, leather is cows and a tanner; a cow needs to eat something; leather production is also a pleasure.
I lived in a village and I can make this list soooo long.
Do you like to watch fairy tales? You're welcome! But don't put an owl on a globe! These fairy tales are as far from reality as your expert opinion about the post-apocalypse.

@WFurman: ///Naive///

Damn it.

It's called civilization. People live in a group, forming a food pyramid.

An event happened - the end of the world. And not the most hardcore. It wasn't an asteroid that fell, with an all-planetary supersonic tsunami. And not the long-term fuss of the World War. One that would fit all the arsenals. All the artifacts are intact!

People survived the first onslaught, then the second, the third. And somehow we learned to live in a new environment. There's a knocker. The specifications indicate a capacity of 1,500 man-hours. She can do as much in an hour as a platoon can in a week! It means that at any cost it is necessary to maintain its working capacity!

Petrochemistry will be replaced by coal chemistry, and its peat chemistry. They will switch from gasoline to a gas stove, for example, they will build an electric tractor. The knocker must work!

The standard of living will drop compared to the modern one. Maybe not in the 16th century, but in the 30s of the 20th! It seems that everything has already been discovered, but it's all over the seven seas. It's only been 25 years since the apocalypse. People who can read are still alive, and there are books around that are worth reading. And they will give education to the children. At least at the elementary school level. In 200 years, I can readily believe that civilization will descend into the universe of the Game of Thrones. Only instead of dragons there will be siege guns.

The problem of the series is not in technology, but in inadequate character roles!!!

@WFurman: ///"the engine life of a gasoline generator is 3-5 thousand operating hours"///

In the first season, it was pointed out that this community had settled on a hydroelectric power station.

///The average barrel life is 2000-3000 rounds of smokeless powder///

How many people survived there? 10%, 1%, 0.1%? I mean, that's where the brigade's armory is. Which contains 5,000 barrels! Now the task is to load up the powder, rivet the capsule and transfer the M-16 to a Remington with a longitudinally sliding bolt.

///Water Supply is a specialist in water purification.///

Since we are not able to read the primer on housing and communal services. Therefore, instead of installing a pump, pipes, a water tower, and so on. We will walk with buckets to the river under the protection of a platoon of soldiers. Or is it a religious prohibition of Gostekhnadzor?

///Horses are saddles.///

That is, during the great migration of peoples, they made harnesses, but now they won't be able to do it? Well, a dumb community will die, and a smarter one will take its place in the sun.

///Lived in the village///

What do you mean, he lived? Updated the thatched roof. He lit a black stove in the hut. In the autumn, after the cabbage harvest, we will go camping. 200 km beyond the forest. Due to the fact that the forest in the province was cut down during the Jenibekovs. And in July, I'll be mowing with a scythe, which I inherited from my grandfather.

Or is it not? And did grandfather, in the broadest sense, inherit more?

@ElllaDee: You can! Darwin's law must be promoted and maintained!

@WFurman: Hooray, that's it, I went looking for a girl!

@nemocandance: What innocent girl? She learned how to kill people back in the first season, when she was really a kid. She is now estimated to be 18-19 years old, six of which she has lived in Jackson, a harsh place where, in theory, she should not have been playing with dolls all this time, but learning how to kill zombies and go on patrol. At least that's how it was in the game when it started.
I would still understand if the events of this episode took place immediately upon arrival in Jackson, but it is very stupid that she has not learned anything in these six years and a reasonable question arises what she was doing at all.

@ah_egorova: он,не он?

@ah_egorova: bliiiin!!)))) if you've completely grown over and grown a beard, it looks like it!!!)))

By the way, he was in the game, at the very beginning of the second part, playing the banjo.

@PiRanha: I Googled it. that's him) Easter eggs, Easter eggs - it's always cool)

@skkurshlh: From the good:

1. Soundtrack (from Season 1)
2. The game of Pedro Pascal
3. References to the game world and game mechanics
4. The creators seem to apologize for Ellie's miscast, so they cast Dina and Abby as prettier actresses than their game counterparts.

In short, it's a second-rate mess, which is sustained only by the very fact of the existence of the franchise, production and Pedro Pascal.

@skkurshlh: "the series is simultaneously trying to claim something independent, but at the same time it copies the game frame-by-frame in many moments, so all the criticism is deserved"
Simply put, you think that since we have long-term plans with giraffes (and N more similar plans) both there and there, then the game and the show can be compared - and not in favor of the show. With this approach, it is unlikely that you will build a serious attitude towards watching movies. The game, as a medium, has a diametrically opposed emphasis on strength, on physical abilities - what works there won't work here. This is directly stated by the creators, analyzing the differences in physical data.

@skkurshlh: >Nevertheless, in the second part of the game, the main twist was that...

Why would you spoiler the show to those who haven't played?

@Skyscore: Yes, I think change my mind, as they say
I have my own opinion on this matter, and I tried to express it, in principle it cannot be right or wrong (serious or frivolous), that's why it's an opinion.

@Skyscore: Sorry for spoiling it here, but it doesn't seem critical.

@Skyscore: this is how a person spoils a game, not a show. You seem to be insisting that the series is an independent work. then you will decide for yourself whether the game and the series are the same thing or not. x) the series is still coming out, it is a priori impossible to spoil it, because no one knows what else the showrunners thought up to make the series different from
the game. I don't see anything wrong with that. to compare the game and the series in the context of the level of drama and character writing. this does not contradict in any way a serious attitude towards viewing. to analyze the general context and motivation of the characters, it is not even necessary to know the original source. but here people just have something else to compare with, where they clearly did better. and it's not clear why the characters in the series should be physically and psychologically downgraded. this creates even more dissonance in the context of what is happening.

@innundir_skinni:
>>you yourself seem to be insisting that the series is an independent work.

I'm saying that Meisin and Druckmann should be given the right to tell the story in a new way. But there is no need to bring it to the point of absurdity - the plot outline can be repeated. The plot twist in question is sure to happen - most likely, a little later. If he doesn't, fine, that's another story, I'll be glad. But to reveal this twist, even to focus attention on it, is to spoil the pleasure of others. If you think that I overreacted on this topic, take a look at what kind of spoiler the management arranged for Hitch, for example - https://youtu.be/IxPsg__Z3cs

@Skyscore: I have a very ambivalent attitude towards spoilers in principle. I don't like them either. but usually spoilers are given briefly, without specifics about HOW it happened, so the intrigue still persists. and in the series, they actually revealed a lot more about Abby, leaving almost no intrigue. we already know where she's going for, so Meisin and Druckmann have already significantly spoiled, in fact))
well, I honestly won't hide it, I consider Druckmann to be a very weak independent screenwriter. They had a great tandem in duet with Straily. they complemented each other. true, I didn't expect this from Mazin, but I still hoped that he would become the same counterweight to Druckmann, with his sometimes senile ideas. of course, I can't completely ignore the game, but even apart from it, the series has a very weak script, in my opinion. especially weak in the context of writing characters. I think the most unfortunate thing is not even Ellie in the role of Ramsay (they made a full-fledged maximalist out of her, which also disgusts me, but still her character does not change herself throughout the series), but Joel. The scriptwriters can't seem to make it complete and believable. He whimpers, then he's a flint man again. why make him deaf in one ear, and add panic, while trying to convince us verbally that he is a super-duper, seasoned smuggler, I do not know. so I'm already looking at the series more like a showpiece, but I naively hope that at least somewhere they will bring something interesting. and the only moment it gave me was when Joel categorically stated that he had saved Ellie. but it would have sounded more natural coming from a game Joel, rather than a TV series, kmk.
pysy. I'll review the video, thank you. I love YT's diverse video essays on cinema and everything related to it.

How is Owen a soy idiot? He's exactly the same as in the game, apparently. Kind, does not want revenge and violence.

@innundir_skinni:
"I don't see anything wrong with that. to compare the game and the series in the context of the level of drama and character writing. this does not contradict the serious attitude to viewing in any way.

again, the level of drama of a complete work (for example, the first season, as a finished product, and the first game) can be compared in the context of the tasks that the game and the show set, and how well they achieved them. In my opinion, the first game made it better than the first season. The same can be done in comparing the dilogy and the X seasons, which will reveal an arc of two games. But skkurskhx is not comparing two end products, it is evaluating the show based on how well the show REPRODUCES the game! And he thinks that if he reproduces in some moments, it means he's just asking for it. The logic is this: once you start repeating, repeat everything. But at least he was the only one who beat me higher, and he honestly admitted it. In my opinion, this is a consumer approach to cinema, boring - give me the same thing, but with real people. But the author says that "an opinion cannot be serious" - then I don't even know what to argue about next. I can blurt out any nonsense like a porcelain teapot flying in space. prove the opposite, and, actually, what?

Can you name at least one work in any form that copied the original exactly and at the same time reached its heights? I can't name any of them. Animes like Dorohedoro and Chainsaw Man come to mind, but even they weren't so interesting to watch when I was reading the manga - it's more like an approximation to the original. Any version of Berserk is worse than manga. Akira is a manga starter, even if it's cool. It also works in the opposite direction - the manga based on Evangelion and his full-meter reshoot is a fanservice that does not reach the original anime. Diligent BBC crafts like Strange and Norrell, Pillars of the Earth, are okay, but they don't reach the books.

At the same time, when the plot, form, and style blunted the adaptation, I'll name it as much as I want. The first thing that comes to mind is "Oil" PTA, "The World of Ghosts" Zwigoff, " the old men" Cohen. "Solaris" and "Stalker - Tark's and the writers' works are equal, but they are essentially different. And it's very interesting to compare them!

@innundir_skinni:
"I think Drakmann is a very weak independent screenwriter. They had a great tandem in duet with Straily. they complemented each other. True, I didn't expect this from Mazin, but I still hoped that he would become the same counterweight to Druckmann, with his ideas sometimes going to the senile extreme.

Well, we agree with you here

@Skyscore: in this context, of course, I agree that it is strange to require a film adaptation to be one-on-one. It's more interesting to look at characters with the same characteristics, but with augmented circumstances. but this task is much more difficult. and, perhaps, I agree that we should wait for the end of season 2, nnooo ... the trend is already visible, that they adhere to the same downgrade storytelling. I don't understand why it was necessary to reveal almost 80% of the cards about Abby right away in episode 1. I was hoping that the series would fix what the game didn't do. it would be more sensible to try to deconstruct if we were allowed to play as Abby first, and so that at the end of the 10-hour gameplay we would find out who we were following, what we wanted, etc. and then suddenly the series even surprisingly copes even worse than the game, giving us almost the entire database at the beginning of x)

Oh, I can give you an example)) Fincher's disappeared. but this is a book, not a video game. However, in the context of a video game, a one-on-one adaptation is less interesting to see than when it comes to a book. but, yes, there are plenty of examples of adaptations above. yes, the same BC or Forrest Gump. As for old people and oil, by the way, I'm very positive!

but still, it seems to me that Meisin and Druckmann will not be able to surpass the original. It's as if the point of no return has already been passed. they try to make changes, but they change things that weren't necessary, while inflating things that are completely inappropriate and sometimes ridiculous. The only thing I, um, to put it mildly, don't understand is why the adaptation has such a high rating. apart from the fan service, this is an average series in terms of drama. and the 1st episode of the 2nd season so far does not inspire hope that it will get better, unfortunately…

@innundir_skinni: Well, this position is already much more interesting to discuss. You're challenging the show from a quality perspective, you're interested in the story, not the satisfaction of a banal desire. And then, yes, you will need to look at the fact. If the story destroys the connection within its own drama along the way, I will come here myself and shout "hack!" loudest of all.

In general, I am very interested in what Druckmann said in the view - that draining the plot of the game during Covid with subsequent death threats from gamers severely traumatized the team and forced them to overestimate some aspects, but in general, as with the game, they did not go along with the public demand - and for them the story first of all. I'm impressed by this kind of punk, it's very interesting how they try to reflect this trauma in the show, and how provocative the experience will be for the viewer - will the deed match the word?

> " The missing Fincher
I haven't read the book, but my wife read it recently, and she said she liked the book better because Finch couldn't convey his thoughts that way. At the same time, she still read and watched sharp objects from Flynn, and there is no reverence for the writer, because the series showed everything beautifully and opened the book perfectly. But then the series and Director Valle (rip) don't really appeal to me.

It seems to me that David has greatly surpassed the books in the club and the social network (I've read them, if non-fiction about Zuck can be called the basis at all) - but this is rather in favor of changes, additions and extensions.

@Skyscore: I've read all of Gillian Flynn's books. she has interesting ideas and writing style, so there is a certain reverence for her as a writer. just high-quality and well-written books with an interesting psychological background. a strange statement about piety in the context of the film adaptation. The book has already been written. whether there is piety or not, it is logical to evaluate the final adaptation. if it turned out well, it means that they wrote both well. unlike the tlou being discussed. I don't know how much Flynn participated in the adaptation of the OP, but Druckmann is definitely actively involved in the adaptation of tlou and in the script for it. and I don't understand why, having such potential, they just frankly simplify all the ideas along with meisin and sometimes reduce them to cheap tabloid novels.

I haven't watched the series on sharp objects, and I can't participate in the discussion on this film adaptation. but I don't quite understand what Fincher was putting the squeeze on in the disappeared if he gave the book 90% without distorting anything (he omitted only some details from the outside that did not affect the overall plot and characters in any way). the only thing is that the ending in the book, of course, feels much more hopeless. but that's why it's a book: it has the opportunity to look deep into the subconscious of the characters much deeper. but Fincher made a decent film adaptation, and it was shot almost one-on-one, and is no less revered. That's exactly what happened, sow)

@innundir_skinni: I wrote about piety not about yours, but about my wife's attitude, and cited the OP as an argument that I did not over-praise the writer. But I haven't read it, I'm just saying that the impressions are different. When I get there, I'll spread it out, just like I wanted to this year.

About tabloid novels - well, here you are exaggerating. I think the non-playing audience comes in contrast to other post-players and on NVOSH vibes, again. According to the picture, this is not an on-air series. Simplification is inevitable, even if we discard shooting games, stealth and replays, there was still more time for a pure narrative in the game. The game also has the advantage of being immersive, hiding in the groseri, and there the gang is talking. It seems like a background, but you learn something about the world. The series needs to be more creative, but I won't say yet that it comes out strongly.

@Skyscore: in the context of a cheap tabloid novel, let's remember the 3rd episode of the 1st season. mentally replace Frank with a female character, and here you are, still the same unnecessary filler at the tabloid level. Damn, the conflict between Frank and Bill was more interesting and much more realistic in the game than in the spirit of hypertrophied Romeo and Romeo. I'm not even talking about the fact that we were deprived of cool scenes with a city full of traps. Well, Bill is also some kind of mattress in the series.

in terms of simplification. Why is it inevitable? What kind of dumb viewer would it be easier for him? x) I'm not talking about reducing fight scenes or immersiveness. I'm talking about the general narrative, about character writing, about interaction. why, for example, was it necessary to make Sam deaf and dumb with leukemia (which they suddenly learned to treat with some kind of magic pill in the post-apoc), why make the already vile David also the head of a cult and an unequivocal pedo? And why was Ellie credited with savoring a half-dead runner with a knife? I'm not talking about the scene where she watches with chikatilovky delight as Joel beats up a soldier... why was it necessary to simplify the story of Tommy and Joel, that they did not disperse on the basis of different views, but Tommy, well, just happened to find a woman somewhere in a sortie and decided to stay with her, leaving Joel in the dark whether he was alive at all? why do we need the improbable story of some leftist leader from Pittsburgh, when it would be cool to film Isha's story separately? I don't understand at all why the stories from the notes are ignored for the most part, stupidly giving out a fan service for miles per second. as with the drawing in the tunnels where Ish was signed. Why is this story with the psychologist in season 2? To smear Joel? or for the sake of another cheap drama?
and these simplifications and absurdities permeate the entire series. and, yes, these solutions are not ingenuity. this is pure graphomania...

@Skyscore: What a stuffy person you are

@Poisonishes: /// nowadays, a 19-year-old teenager. They should have an adult independent person there. They go to Patpuli like adults. Many people would already have families and children at this age.///

Sending girls to war?! Yes, your humanity is dead! Now the combat task is to give birth to eight kittens!

@Slyther_In: я не одна 🥹🥹

@karinabuzia: and I keep thinking - is she or is she not))

@karinabuzia: It's super in apple cider vinegar!! by the way, there is also the movie "Rosalyn" (about the former Romeo ahahah), starring Caitlin Deaver, and Juliet is played by the actress Dina :)

@oknevermind: Oh, cool, I haven't even heard of it, but there really is such a movie) I need to take a look

@Orsha111: you went right past my point and completely ignored it. There is absolutely no way that a 19 year old girl can hold a grown man down in any way. Hell, even a 19 year old boy would find it problematic unless he was REALLY athletic. And the man didn't have to beat the shit out of her to get free, he could just take her off himself, like you do with an annoying monkey.
It's pretty obvious what's going on, I think in this episode alone we had like 5+ shoehorned MESSAGES of "women power" and "men bad" bullshit.
The writers insult your intelligence when they shove it down your throat like that, and when you deliberately ignore it... well, I don't know what to say

@yumtee: It was just that it was important for a man not to show his superiority, but to teach Ellie skills. He's emotionally healthy, he doesn't need to prove anything. The best representation of men

@niggapig: he misrepresented reality, set unrealistic expectations for Ellie... How does she learn anything from that? In a world like this, if anything, he's putting her in danger...

@niggapig: /// and teach Ellie skills///

Damn it.

There is such a sport as Amateur boxing.

The fights take place according to the rules. The ring. Soft floor covering. Rules. You can't hit below the belt, in the back of the head, and so on. The fighters are being weighed. Athletic experience, a junior will not be put up against a master of sports. And imagine women only with women! There's a referee in the ring. On the sides of the judge. There are seconds in the corners. Shoes, that's not once kirzachi. Helmets. Gloves that weaken the force of impact fifteen times.

And there is Professional boxing. As they wrote about a boxer. I've had 200 amateur fights and 32 or 33 pro fights in my career. Two knockouts and my sports career is over. Absolutely! That's the difference. Although it seems to be boxing.

In Ellie's situation, the only martial art that makes sense is high-speed pistol shooting!

How do the authors of the series justify that Ellie has become a Super Woman? Maybe there are still superpowers? Run cross-country under 160 km/h. Or has her vision gone into the ultraviolet, and now she can see smells?

@Citokos: The podcast said that the creators had been deciding for a long time which type of martial arts would be suitable for Ellie in the series, because she is much lower than Ellie from the game. We agreed on jiu-jitsu, with the help of which it is most realistic for a low person to defeat a big one.

@yumtee: and what can I say, most of the audience are soy dolls who only heard about TLOU, but did not play.

@niggapig: ///We agreed on jiu-jitsu, with the help of which it is most realistic for a low person to defeat a big one.///

The strongest hand-to-hand combat is drill and bayonet combat!

Well, the game is! It would be nice if she sparred, I do not know, with this commander. We keep in top-five physical shape, and that's it. And not this man here at the peak of his form.

And I'm sure that the fans of freestyle wrestling have not yet expressed their opinions. What a trick she used to beat this burly man. Or do fans of freestyle wrestling not watch this?

@Citokos: we only watch if Billy Herrington is among the actors. 8)

@niggapig: I support you
for some, the "filler" episodes, and for others, the expansion of the lore of the game

@niggapig: That's what I'm saying, I should have told you right away. Why wait two years?

More water? Tell me, what was the point of the new heroine in season 1, who killed a fucking doctor in the aftermath? And as I understand it, she will appear again in season 2.

@nemocandance: It has a bigger budget than TWD

@nemocandance: I don't know where the budget is bigger, but the funny thing is that it's not needed for logic. How much budget do I need to add to show that they don't live one person per two-story house, but live in groups? Instead, Joel goes to a psychologist, who also lives alone in the house and does not seem to benefit society. He also charges for services. And how does she pay for the services of an electrician, plumber, doctor? And how much budget is needed to inspect for bites after a trip outside the fence? In my opinion, these are particularly bad screenwriters who work according to the principle: "And it will do." Makeup artists and the main character don't really care either. What was 5 years ago, what is now - the only changes seem to be tattoos on the arm. TWD, at least in the first few seasons, tried to do it logically, there wasn't much outright nonsense. There aren't many episodes here, you can think better, but they don't even try.

@Poisonishes: we'll see, I don't want to guess on coffee grounds)

@Citokos: your opinion has a place to be. But I was writing about the SCENE, not the logic of the character's behavior or the plot. The scene is beautifully choreographed. Regarding the plot, here we were shown the evolution of monsters from dumb zombies to predators, they showed how careless the girls were - Ellie was bitten. Oh, and Ellie has that kryptonite count immunity. It seems like the whole episode was about Ellie NOT GROWING UP and still acting like a child. And you're going to affect this, even though it's at the center of the whole series...
I understand why Ellie isn't afraid, and to be honest, I expected her to pay for it with her friend.

@amadei: ///The scene is beautifully choreographed.///

In general, the demiurges of the creators of the series could not ignite in me a spark of empathy for the main character. On the contrary, they achieved rejection.

/// immunity///

A scene earlier showed a bullied bear. How can immunity help against such wounds? Or in the same scene, Ellie fell through the floors. How will immunity help with a back fracture?

Immunity is the only fixed one. Few stats. data. Maybe it worked twice, but the third one won't work. Or, for example, it doesn't work with a hangover, or after sauerkraut. Again, the rampaging mushroom mutated into a stalker. Whatever the community has faced in 25 years. But how does the immune system not work on this mutation?

/// I expected her to pay for it with her friend.///

According to the picture shown, I expected them to pay with their entire city-state.

- They've bred their pets. I'll do this, but I won't do that. And the little man, to put it mildly, is not adept!

- They ignore the orders of the commander. If only Ellie had been stuck. For example, there are hundreds of infected people in the village? We would have to organize a rescue operation. Such spontaneous actions only increase losses. Here, in general, it is possible to produce a split with a coup. Joel would definitely turn on the berserker and chase people away. And the only way to stop it would be to eliminate Joel. And he has a brother who has a wife. Both members of the council. And there are also human connections left behind the scenes. That's how one thing can lead to another.

- In the series, it seems like a normal medieval siege with an eternal quarantine. So that's it. Those who return from the cold, and even after a recorded encounter with infected people, are checked for a bite using a survey method! "I'm a Muscovite, I'm fine! (c) And in the first season, Phaedra had a curfew, night patrols, and a city divided into sectors by fences. Everyone has suffered so much. :-(

@Citokos: If you didn't like it, that's good.
It's a TV series. there are a lot of conventions here. let's not suffer from bullshit and pull out every little thing and compare it with reality (the funny thing is that reality will still give a head start).
danger is everywhere - you can injure your finger and die from tuberculosis / hepatitis/AIDS. it is possible about the pupils. It can be caused by a heart attack. Falling off a horse is also a common occurrence. Why do they drive them then?
there are no adrenaline junkies in life? Are there no people who want to feel the danger?
Why are there no complaints about wasting time? It doesn't happen the same way...Where have 5 years gone? Return it!
where are all these long unnecessary boring transitions for many days? they are so lacking in all works of art.
In general, the main question is why people behave stupidly and illogically in TV shows - it doesn't happen that way in real life, does it?
there are blunders in any work.
I think you just didn't like it. but these reasons are more like an excuse for why.
I fully understand that I might not like it. but with the described approach, you will not like any work, including documentaries.
Why are you torturing yourself then?

@amadei: ///why are you torturing yourself then?///

The advertisement is good. :-(

@an_khv: posters are published at the beginning of the comments. Take a closer look at the ones in the blue color scheme))).

@Hidji: funny))))

@Aizen-88: happiness is not in the teeth...

@niggapig: and the weight categories were invented for a reason.

@salamonnubke: the first thing I remember is: dogs) what kind of relationship Abby had with dogs and what Ellie did with them) It just really caught my eye)
I'm sorry that I'm not writing directly in the forehead, suddenly there will be something tied up in the series on this topic, I don't want to write too much)

@Kiro_des: as far as I remember, all the moments with dogs can be passed through stealth and it turns out it's all the player's fault. There's only one thing that's kind of mandatory, and that's where she attacks you.

@an_khv: /// I didn't want to turn to men for help, probably///

I repeat. The scene breaks the logic of this work of art with its inadequacy.

It's like there's a deadly infestation of rabid fungi that destroyed humanity. And so two girls climb up to clean the room. Just for fun! With knives!

The room where Ellie fell through is a pure game room for paintball and other entertainment. Ragged lighting, shelving. It's a normal location for a horror movie. And so:

First, Ellie starts reading a glossy magazine!!!

Then Dina rushes to the rescue with a perky rhinoceros!!!

What's all this for???

PySy. Meanwhile, the patrol is standing in hostile terrain with sour faces. "I wish these majorettes had been eaten." :-(

@Citokos: with the magazine laughed)))

@niggapig: magic, that's all, considering everything that happened before that)

@salamonnubke: That's because you're a man. You don't perceive two lesbians negatively, hoping that you can (figuratively) sleep with both of them. He doesn't like gays, or maybe girls like them and they're like lesbians to men? We need to think about other people, too.

@RenegadeAD: I like Ellie better on the show.

@niggapig: I like Ellie better in the game.