s01e05 — Серия 5

@fru_stormar: Yes, I got the ladies mixed up. Marianne, Matilda...Anyway, the union of Matilda Rakan and Stantzler is unexpected. However, there is some kind of Stantzler here and not Stantzler at all. Maybe he wants to stop the apocalypse too. Or whatever he's doing with the Queen and Richard.

@Hellfrozenrain: thanks for the answer! I hope to start reading books soon, because there are so many questions and so few answers after watching.

And the scene is very strange... I mean, Marianne, like those rapists in real life who put something in your drink, and then in the morning, "well, we had a good time together." What was it, and most importantly, why? To lead her to the fact that she now knows his secret longings for the queen? So it was possible to beat without all this. It doesn't take much intelligence to put two and two together.

In short, we need to read urgently. 😅

@chickchirik: the fact is that Marianne doesn't really need this secret. She did it to serve Alva. At least that's what the book said. The series is so rapidly moving away from the original into free flight that I won't be surprised at anything anymore.

@chickchirik: Read it, learn a lot of new things

I also have the main question for this scene, WHY?

@Hellfrozenrain: Well, you can ask the same question about the book. The fact that Alva and Dick are sleeping with ladies does not explicitly refute their relationship. In the books, Alva, I remember, confessed to certain experiments.

Here, at least, the young man, who in the previous episode was sloshing wine with jugs, was not tried to drink too much.

@anekr: Didn't he send Dick to Marianne because of Katari?

Dick had a crush on the queen, it was obvious. According to one of the characters, Dick has a face like a slate. I don't want to read it. The marshal understood that with such a dreamy mindset, these fantasies could become disastrous, so he decided to let the young man down to sinful earth. That's how I've always thought about this episode.

@fru_stormar: perhaps so, the series does not contradict this in any way.

@anekr: of course) rumors are generally difficult to refute. But it didn't hurt to give Richard confidence. To avoid being so provoked.

Anyway, in my understanding, this scene in the book makes more sense than the scene in the TV series.) What goals did Roke pursue there, in your opinion?

@Hellfrozenrain: I think you can fit a lot of things into this scene if you want) From the desire to encourage Dick, to give him a trump card, "talked to the best courtesan of Taliga," to the desire to question Dick under drugs. Maybe he didn't just talk about his love for Katari.

@anekr: really, a lot of things) But unfortunately, the scriptwriters didn't tell us any of this.

or maybe they just decided that it would be cool to show the bare thigh of the squire in the frame (no, well, the scene is beautiful without question) and the seductive writhing of the courtesan).. And we're looking for some kind of meaning.

@Hellfrozenrain: it always seemed to me that Alva sent Richard to Marianne (in the book) because her gratitude should belong to Richard, because for his sake he went to play (and not for the sake of a courtesan). Well, he probably wanted to distract the boy from the murder, switch to something pleasant. And in the series, this scene is just some kind of tin. At least they showed that Richard wasn't thrilled at all. Well, Richard has a monsignor. It's not a pity to poison such a person.)))

@Hellfrozenrain: The seductive writhing of a courtesan??? I didn't find it tempting at all. Even if we omit the fact that she poisoned Richard, that he couldn't stand on his feet and had glitches, but in itself this sinewy leg is not at all tempting. This terminator's aunt reminded me.

@fru_stormar: Was that really the case in the book? There didn't seem to be any secrets there. Alva just sent a squire to the courtesan (instead of himself). She seduced an innocent boy. She seduced me, not poisoned me with some kind of trash, did her job, and the next morning she gaslit and blackmailed me. The question is why?
It seems to me that from the cut for episode 6, Alva's conversation with Marianne will not be about Richard. Marianna, like a nun, will probably meet with some demoniac and then give Alva information about it.

@fru_stormar: but in the book, when Alvah sent Richard to the courtesan, he didn't know anything about the Queen. He sent a young man there instead of himself. Marianne wanted to thank PM for winning her back from Kilian. And he sent a squire instead. Because it was only for him that he came to the salon and played. That is, Marianne's "thank you" should have gone to Richard. I've never seen this episode in a book as related to Katarina.

@chickchirik: Yes, you can read it yourself and I wonder how you will see this scene with Marianne in the book. For example, I've never seen it as an attempt to stop rumors. Because I don't understand how a relationship with a courtesan can stop the rumors that Esteban was spreading about them. There, rather, the kind Alva simply decided to expand the horizons of the young man and, plus, redirect Marianna's gratitude to someone to whom she really needs to be grateful. But maybe you can still read this scene. And in the series - ???

@Hellfrozenrain: Well, it's not with Alva to show Richard naked X) We got out of the situation this way X)

@fru_stormar: yes, they somehow spoiled the perception of the character, and it's not clear yet why it was necessary to arrange it like this, if it was different in the book.

@fru_stormar: I agree with you. The scene with Marianne Kringova. But what to take from a courtesan - she is a forced laborer. But there are questions about who organized and paid for all this.

@Hellfrozenrain: Yes. That's probably what they wanted to show.

yet in the book, his devotion to Aldo as overlord came from desperation. There was no way for him to go home, no one offered to return.

As a friend, yes, he was unconditionally devoted, but already at the beginning of history he understood that he would not be a king. And if it happens, then um.. It's lame. Although if you've read the later books, you know that Ro later participated in a conspiracy against Aldo. And after his death, I thought a lot about the fact that he betrayed Aldo not only in deed, but also in his soul, he refused him, which Aldo never found out.

Well, let's not talk about books. It's just that this scene in the series hurt my eyes so much, I don't see the need for it. It was obvious that he was devoted and caring in every possible way.

@fru_stormar: Yes, I've read enough, and I know all this... but you'd better warn me that you have spoilers in the comments...

@Hellfrozenrain: I apologize. I will continue to warn you.

@fru_stormar: So I'll keep watching, too, if only for the sake of the picture, I've loved this fandom for more than half my life, I'd like to see it to at least understand how far they'll go in reshaping the plot and characters.

@Hellfrozenrain: I love book Iris in general, and the actress is so pretty (maybe even too much for book Iris), but looking at all this is straight and simple, But it also seems that if I hadn't read, I would have been interested in watching. And so it's mostly cringe-worthy) but at the same time, there's still a lot of cool stuff - remembering books and discussing it all and comparing it)

@bedoier: bookish Iris was also a savage, Oakdellian honesty, imbecility, and courage in the flesh. But still, she didn't dare to be rude to the queen. I read Katari according to all the rules of etiquette. Apparently, they didn 't allocate time for this and had to show her character in three seconds. 😅

@bedoier: that's right)
on the other hand, I don't feel like a hedgehog with a cactus😆 I look while it's looking, it's really like a backdrop)

@gooodvin: don't be horrified, there must be 17 of them, which is why the last one hasn't been written yet).

@Hidji: if there are no rolls, then I understand that the publisher has given the writer a deal after all, and a major revision is planned in the new reissue, where there will be no "nine and three quarters" or "the second part of the third book of the third volume of the fifth novel". And the total number of books will decrease due to this.

"the last one has not been written yet"
Apparently, no one believes that it will ever be written at all. And if it does, it won't be the last one.

@gooodvin: Well, you know, it's either going to cut out huge chunks and completely reformat the volumes, or books thicker than an encyclopedia will be. And anyway, the previous formatting just ruined everything, as they say. I haven't read it myself, I have the first version from Eksmo to the tenth book, I think. 350-400 pages each. Then I read a couple of emails, xs of which version).

@Hidji: 350-400 is not enough by epic-epic standards. There will definitely be a "volume reformat".
The new "Ball of Fate" (which is now book #6 and the finale of the "second trilogy") is announced as ("The truth of steel, the lie of mirrors") + (Most of the old "Ball of Fate") + (separate chapters of "Sunset").
From "Dusk", "Midnight" and the four volumes of the notorious "Dawn", it seems that Kamsha has announced a reformatting into a "third trilogy". And the leftovers and non-subscriptions to the "fourth".

I thought about reading about 15 years ago, but then I didn't get involved with the series because of the incompleteness and criticism of the fandom, but now the series and the reformulation somehow inspired me to the feat. I've already bought a few books, and I'm gradually starting to roll in)

@gooodvin: I wonder how they will come to you. For some reason, it seems to me that many who liked the series (and who watched it without reading the books) will now be very disappointed with the books. Well, maybe not the first one, but the rest - most likely. And they will say: the series is more interesting.

@raddish81: Nah, I think the books keep winning from the series. The characters are written and developed there in such a way that I still don't believe that the writer led some of them to where they found themselves. On the other hand, several stories are simply merged. And the fact remains that Kamsha just doesn't seem to know how to finish her cycles. If anything, her first novel cycle is also unfinished: ten years later, she simply announced that the last published book in the series could be considered the finale.

@dashus: I have a completely different impression of the books: fused characters, scoundrels exposed as saints, huge verbiage, extremely questionable morality, a lot of completely superfluous characters (who are all these people anyway?). That's why the series is much better.

@Hidji: following in the footsteps of George Martin) I wouldn't be surprised if the series ends before the release of the new book)

@PanPanich: Does anyone need books from Kamshi? it's completely uninteresting how she completes her nonsense, which eventually turned out.
And Martin's is interesting.

@PanPanich: So, considering how many years have passed, even if they take off six or seven years, they'll manage faster than she does.😅

@QueenOfGems: 100%. By all indications, the problem is a terrible scenario, and the actors are just playing what they were given.

@Hidji: Again, maybe it's not a script, maybe it's the director, for example, who sees it that way!
To be honest, I didn't go into the details of the production, but the problem with speech is clearly systemic.

@raddish81: Yes, but this Adhemar has nothing in common with Adhemar the bookish, and it's time for the true ones to go to the dump. there are very strange accents in the series: characters who have an interesting character and their own line are merged, and people who were supposed to drink in the third episode are given an image and the development of storylines.

@HolyPryce: well, since Adhemar is not like a bookish one, it means that a bookish one is not needed in the series. They're telling their own story. To this end, they have selected from the book series only what works for THEIR story. I think it's right. And maybe the serialists don't agree with the drinking that happened to some of the characters in the books and want to make the fate of the hero different.

@HolyPryce: Yes, Adhemar was good and downright gorgeous in the book. But it is unlikely that there will be Varasta (it seems to me that it will be purely dotted), therefore, an Adhemar such as in the book is not needed. They have the apocalypse on their nose. There is no time for a long confrontation between a Raven and a Fox.

@fru_stormar: It also seemed that Mallit

@hanginhan: Oh, that's also why I didn't finish reading the cycle. The attitude of Karari-Richard and Valme-Ferdinand finally finished me off. If you measure virtue, then by the same standard.

@Anagramma: to be honest, I can't take Kamsha seriously as a writer after retcons with additions about what else!!! Richard stinks!!! and the double standards for the characters of KMK are a direct continuation of the author's views, to put it mildly. when I found out that even the first books I once loved were written in paragraphs by other authors, and not just anything, but romance novels, I generally began to treat the series with condescension: well, yes, it was a mess, but you might think the original source was the ideal of adventure fantasy...

@hanginhan: retcons are, yes, to create a cool living ambiguous character, and then try with all her might to somehow humiliate him in retrospect, as if she had Richard with a living person with whom she had a serious conflict associated. And this story of domination, which she breaks herself because of Dick.

I've read romance novels, too, and I've even had a blast. But then how many Alvadiks it gave rise to. The dynamics of the love affair crept over with the scenes. What was she thinking about anyway, it would be fine if she took it from adventure novels written by men, like to reliably convey male psychology somehow, I would at least understand. But in any case, this is plagiarism and certainly beyond the bounds for a writer.

@hanginhan: I agree with you about your opinion about the characters of Kamshi. If the characters in the first books were somehow ambiguous and opinions about them were not imposed, then the subsequent books are hell and Israel. If the author's hero is a favorite, he is forgiven for any abomination, but if the author dislikes the hero, she will poison him with all her might. And then there's the moral from above: read books correctly, only those who love Alva or Talig properly are worthy.

@hanginhan: retcons are, in my opinion, a huge disgrace and proof of the author's failure. Moreover, they really have already messed up everything and the author herself does not remember where she said and corrected what. But at the same time, it is claimed that there was a clear plan from the very beginning and it allegedly did not change, and in general you do not understand these 10001600 volumes are still a trilogy. Yeah, it's an old legend.

@Anagramma: what are you - the author of the book cycle does not understand and does not know how. She has double standards everywhere. If the hero is her favorite, he may be a complete freak, but he will fight back and justify himself with all his might.

@hanginhan: Oh, I subscribe to every word you say. I also can't respect Kamsha after retconing and deliberately belittling the hero she disliked. And then you can also take at least some lies about the fact that it was like that, you're just reading books incorrectly. For me, after that, she became a disrespectful person and a bad writer. The series is much better than the books in this regard. Moreover, it seems to me that many things in the series contradict Kamshi's later books. And this is good news.

@Anagramma: her attempts to erase Richard from the narrative broke the logic of the whole story. That is, the character took revenge on her very much. And what books have become - something unintelligible, boring, very verbose and meaningless - is also a response from the Universe to her.

@raddish81: I hope the clear plan included that radio-controlled swan priddov from the last books)))

after I found out about the plagiarism, my attitude towards the author deteriorated so much that they simply changed her canon, well, Esteban/Iris got fucked from somewhere, big deal... Okay, OK, the author is fucked up, doesn't know how to finish his endless writing and with cannibalistic looks, they've gotten used to it over the years, but stealing?? Therefore, in the series, I have more questions about serial jambs (such as the actors' inability to play with a voice with a plus or minus ok face game, Marianne's cringe or Alva's empty mansion) than about the inconsistency of the books.

@raddish81: "there was a clear plan from the very beginning" is impossible simply because she did not finish it). If a writer has a clear plan from start to finish, then he finishes the series, rather than dragging out the last book for many years, trying to come up with a more or less decent conclusion, and even under the pressure of his mistakes and the reaction of the fandom))).

@hanginhan: Yes, well, what can I say - the book series is a very problematic material. And essentially unsuccessful. Because of the endless "changing horses at the ferry" and walking your personal problems in a strange war with lit. The character's cycle became unsuccessful. It's just enough to go to the Science Fiction laboratory website and read reviews from people who were initially very devoted fans of the saga, people liked the first, second, and even third books, and then with each new book the quality dropped, questions multiplied, and then the retcons arrived and the hell started. That's how to film such a problematic and generally disastrous story? The serialists acted wisely. They did not literally film this horror (considering where everything had gone). And well done.

@raddish81: I absolutely agree with you. There are no complaints about Chursin Alva, and they managed to transfer something. But the book is completely different.

@fru_stormar: Yes, he's different in the book. And he treats Dick differently in the book. He's kind in the book (at least in the first one). And then there's some kind of bdsm all the time in a relationship. Then he cuts his hand with a brutal face, then he gives a razor in his hands and substitutes his throat, then he sends it to the cloakroom attendant, then he is rude to sincere gratitude that I did not do this for you. Brr. Well, at least he teaches fencing, and thanks for that))

@raddish81: I wouldn't call him kind anywhere. To me, he's a typical major who thinks he can do anything. In the first books, he's just comfortable, so he's friendly. "Two is too much." But of course in the series he's generally a bit infernal. And that's the lighting. Not an Australian, but a vampire, as if forever in a crypt. Although he doesn't look like much in this light. Sending Dick to Marianne is as confusing as possible. Why? What for? She's not supposed to be drugging him at all. Surely an experienced courtesan without any candles can't attract a naive loafer.

@g1287352: Please, this is not every candle, this is a very special candle! She was smoking towards Marianne, but only Richard was blown away!

@Beara: She looks familiar. Although she suddenly got into dancing. The guy was so ready. Maybe it affects her too, just specifically.

@Anagramma: and with your permission, I will continue to call Alva kind in the first book. I think he took Richard because he felt sorry for the boy, like the colt Moreau, whom he also saved when they wanted to cull him. And then he saved Dick, taught him, did kind things for him, took care of him. If you don't take Richard's eternal boo boo boo at face value, then you can see that Alva is a very good er. In addition, Roke works great with people: take Aduans and ordinary people in general. Soldiers and ordinary people adore him. Because he doesn't abuse his power. But Alva, who appears in the second half From War to War, is a scoundrel and in some places terribly nauseating. But these are Kamshi's retcons. I don't recognize them. There's a reinvention in the series. And I still don't really understand the motives of this Alva. He's still in the shadows. We should at least watch the first season to get a clear impression of what kind of character he is. Episode 5 gave me a cringe, yes. And I agree with your questions about why. In the cart, they gave the following answer from an insider. 1. This rape scene is there from all sides.
2. But the existence of this story is dictated not by someone's personal desire, but by dramatic necessity.
When asked by one of the viewers if we would understand what this dramatic need is in the final scene of season 1, the following answer was given:
3. This is a long line, and the relationship between Alva and Richard and their deep character arcs are involved here. The line of these relationships and the arc of character change extends beyond the first season, although it will have its logical continuation in episode 6 and will be quite strong. Nevertheless, it is very difficult to answer this question without spoilers, so I can only say that it had a dramatic need to strengthen the interpenetration of the characters' traumas.

@raddish81: Well, as many readers as there are Roke Alva. It's even interesting how different people see the characters differently. In the first book, I was probably also somewhat fascinated by him, but I generally love all kinds of Byronic heroes. Back then, I had complaints about his personality rather than his morals. Otherwise, he's a reader, a reaper, and a gambler. The serial Alva is really not clear at all yet and it is difficult to judge it.

Hmm, interesting. Well, we're waiting to see what kind of drama it is.

@Anagramma: haha, you might be surprised, but I don't even see the Byronic hero in the Roke of the first book. For this, it is too functional and well integrated into the social fabric of reality. He does not challenge the world, does not rebel, but defends his world and his people. Therefore, for me, in the first book (and the first half of the second, by the way), he is first of all a cool pro (he is the First Marshal for a reason), an excellent manager (it sounds modern, but he has a sense for people and he knows how to work with them perfectly) and a kind heart. At the same time, he is a murderer, and if it is necessary to kill, then he will not rust. Here is such an interesting hero.
When I try to think about the series Alva, my brain crashes. Who is he? What is he? I don't know yet.
Although at least he is the savior here, well, at least of the state and his King. For the first two episodes.
Yes, we are waiting for more information.

@raddish81: Well, as for Roke's professionalism and organizational skills, then yes. I completely agree here.

@raddish81: actually, judging by the series, it seemed to me that Alva was like a savior for Richard, but in the format of such a male show-off (as they like to write in ff). So I helped you with the wound (again, how he did it is dark, Richard generally thought that he would fall back, but here you see, Alva "heartily" helped). Then Okdellovsky won back the sword. Again, how beautiful and with pathos.
And with Marianne, it turned out that Alva had given him such a "gift", they say, finally become a man, be with a real woman. And yet, in his style, it's pretentious and with a statement.

@raddish81: is he 35?.. then Chursin hits it well, he just seems too young to me here, only a little older than Oakdell 😭
And there are also official illustrations. But according to them, the Cavill era can only play with dignity)))

@Scandias: I don't know, I would have given a Rock in the series 42. It's a little fresher in the dark. But here is a close-up and in the light there is clearly already such a complete uncle. And that's why his teasing of Oakdell looks silly. An adult is like an uncle, but he behaves like that.

@kims_ks: Alva raped him with Marianne. Even Serail's creative producer confirmed that the scene was filmed as a rape. In general, most likely, Alva, as a Rakan, will have to sacrifice Richard as one of the Lords in order to save the world. So, it seems to me that the savior from the TV series Alva is a bad one. In the book (before the stupid retcons), Alva saved Richard many times. But here, in the series, there are other accents.

@Anagramma: Yes, for me, Alva looks like all his 45 years. It doesn't even smell like 35 years old. However, this does not spoil him at all. I like the serial image anyway.

@raddish81: Has Kamsha deleted all of Alva Richard's rescues in later versions?!

@Cry_to_Heaven: No, but she fucked up both Richard and Alva as best she could.
Alve inserted a nasty phrase into the beautiful hand healing scene, where this almost 40-year-old man (in a retcon) reproaches a 16-year-old boy for having done more than Alva himself. Well, it's kind of a reproach - why did you agree to be my squire? I would like to ask - why did you offer to become your squire?
Then kamsha prescribed Richard the smell of horse sweat (as if Alva only smells of violets) and inserted this remark into Alva's mouth when he rudely advises Richard (unbidden and completely stupid) to wash himself because he smells of horse sweat, and suddenly Richard is going to a lady (yeah, a 16-year-old beggar duke, which is why there were so many acquaintances in Ollaria). It's terribly disgusting. And it's not the fault of the heroes. It's a shame for the author. It's always like that with Kamsha. You think she's reached the bottom, but she's soaking something again and breaking through the bottom even harder.
There are literally stupid edits on every page. Er Roque is replaced by impersonal names like marshal and duke, and Richard is a squire.
I once foolishly bought the 2014 edition (two volumes). When she discovered this retcon abomination, she threw the book away from her, as if it were now stained with sewage. I'm thinking of burning it.
I made a special effort and found the first editions and purchased them for myself.

@raddish81: interestingly, are there probably already edited versions in yandex.books?

@motokokisaragi: The first book is definitely there. I started reading after the third episode of the series was released, and I didn't even know at first that the editions were somehow different in text.

@gentile_blossom: Well, that's similar. I just found out from the comments.

@raddish81: Oh, thank you! I am very annoyed by sexism, lukism, and other xenophobia in Kamshi's works, I try to wade through it and read for the sake of the details of the world, but it's just too hard, and plus these alterations (( As if she didn't really construct the images - and immediately deconstructs (

@motokokisaragi: Yes, these are probably retconned versions.

@Cry_to_Heaven: @Cry_to_Heaven: I believe that at first there was one plan (at the time when it was all conceived as a dilogy or a trilogy), and then the author decided (for some mysterious reason) to abruptly change horses at the ferry. Therefore, the first book and a half stands in stark contrast to the second half of the second book and then the third, plus the rest.

@Cry_to_Heaven: And the ears of such a drastic change of plan stick out of the narrative. And even the retcons that the author undertook in 2014 did not change much.
For example, there was originally a strong mystical lineage with One and the Overlords. Robert and Richard had mystical dreams. Alve too. Everything there indicated that a Turning Point was coming, the world was falling into the abyss, something terrible was coming, and the heirs of the gods should remember what their mission in this world was.

@Cry_to_Heaven: But then Kamsha came to hate one of the Lords, Richard Oakdell. And from the second half of the second book, this hero began to drain. In the end, she dealt with him, skewing the entire foundation of this world. And even pulling different owls on the globe does not help.
Or, for example, according to the original plan, it was clear that Nal (Richard's cousin) was an attacker and he was the one behind the attempts on Dick's life. Well, rather, he was an instrument, of course, and most likely Stantzler was behind them. But kamsha abruptly changed horses at the ferry and now she has nothing to drink at all, but it turns out that some Manriques attempted to kill Dick, about whom there are no words at all in the first book (and in the first half of the second book too).
According to the original plan, Alva took Richard as a squire without any mercantile plans - he simply felt sorry for the boy, whom everyone had abandoned (like the foal Moreau, whom they wanted to kill, felt sorry for).

@Cry_to_Heaven: But kamsha climbs out with retcons and voila - in hindsight, Alva gets a nasty motivation - he takes Oakdell for mercantile reasons, knowing in advance that the young man will have to be drained. And this is Alva? Alva, who ran and slept with Richard in the first book, is generally a noble man. Kamsha began to spoil the characters, making them vile for the sake of walking her psychological cockroaches in books and on forums. And the whole cycle went to one place, getting worse and worse with each book. It crumbled like a raw, unpeeled dough.
And so everything started well. For me, kamsha can be a role model of how to lose everything in her life and drain everything she can.

@raddish81: Thanks for the details! Now, based on the series, I think that the creators, firstly, love Richard much more than Kamsh (what a relief!), and secondly, they want to stick to the idea that the Lords should be left alive and let them save the world (since even Alva is concerned about this).
Neither the description of the wars nor the showdowns of the nobles at Kamshi comes to me, but it is the fantastic component that would be interesting if it were not so deeply buried that you can't get through ((
It's doubtful about Alva's nobility, even in the doretkon versions, he seems to be pursuing exactly his goals and never does anything good towards Richard, which could not be explained by insidious plans (tm) to tame the foal or outrage everyone else.

@motokokisaragi: yes, they are not particularly different, some stylistic phrases have been replaced. Not necessarily for the better. My only pain is that the Taligo ballad was set as the prologue to Red on Red. It is better to read as it was in the previous version the prologue is Lonely, and the Taligoi ballad was the prologue to From War to War. In the new version, part of the intrigue is lost.

@Beara: I was so stunned by the scene with Marianne that I watched the Agaris arch in a daze. It will need to be reviewed. But I was also surprised by such an abrupt transition: I don't care about Mallit and his joyful words to Robert in the last episode: I have a shield, Mallit is just love-love-kisses. He's probably getting information out of her. And she leaked important things to him about her father, for example.

@gooodvin: Aldo clearly shows what kind of "love" there is, he doesn't even really try to play it. Which is not at all in the direction of the actor, but of the character.

@raddish81: imho Katarina is not a Wine girl. Otherwise, he wouldn't be messing with her right now.

What Katarina says can generally be divided by 10. She says all kinds of things. And she gave Iris the worst advice. Which in the next episode may lead to such consequences.

In fact, Katari is supposed to be accommodating. It also makes me a little confused and doubtful. But it seems to me that there will still be this twist with Katari.

@raddish81: What other wine street? If you're talking about what he told Dick, then no, it's not about Katari. There was another one. Who she is is not important. I don't even remember if he mentioned the name, if he did, I forgot. But it's definitely not about Katari.

@fru_stormar: Well, it's different in the book, but in the movie it's unclear how it will turn out. Dick has 3 sisters too, not just one.

@Anagramma: I 'm not talking about the film at all . 🤣 Anything can be in the film

@Anagramma: Well, let's see, we'll wait for episode 6, I hope there will be a clear answer who Katari is. But I'm still getting the picture that it's kind of her. A) Alva talks about the Wine Shop, once upon a time I was in love and blah blah blah, and when Richard asked, who is she? Alva immediately shut down. They stressed that the girl's name is important. B) Richard sees a scene with flowers (Alva is visible from the back, his emotions are unknown), and Katarina is glowing like a very much in love woman. C) in episode 5, she tells Iris that she was once in love and how she would like to return there, given her radiance in the last episode - most likely talking about Alva. Well, it turns out that she's a girl from Vinnaya Street.

It didn't seem to me that she gave Iris the worst advice. If we assume that Katarina is sincere in the serial version, then perhaps she really regrets that she missed her chance at love and therefore gives advice to Iris - not to clap her ears. Yes, it will most likely lead to a duel, but what is Iris's fault? The girl who grew up in Mirabella Oakdell Prison.

But maybe you're right - and there will be a twist with Katari! The strength of this series is its unpredictability.

@raddish81: apparently, the budget for the "second attempt" was very limited. Hence such short series, and there are only 6 of them.

@gooodvin: apparently. I sincerely wish the series to earn a lot of money and find sponsors for the next seasons. A great second attempt turned out to be just 10/10.

@Anagramma: I had the same thought too))))) But in the book, Stantzler was telling Richard exactly this kind of nonsense, that the King could not become a father and Alva was working for him.

@raddish81: I think that's why the thought crossed my mind.

But in general, I unexpectedly like Ferdinand the most here so far. An interesting hero.

@raddish81: Yes, but it's exactly the opposite.: The queen is not capable of giving birth, let's send her to a monastery, and we'll find a more suitable one for you, Your Majesty.

@Beara: It's strange here, but if the King is infertile and not the Queen? Did they check it at all? There is a version that in the last episode, Alva planted Katari, not Marianne, under the squire. That's why Richard was drugged so he wouldn't remember. And all this for the sake of the heir (the blond one). Hopefully Episode 6 will provide an answer to this question.

@raddish81: an interesting theory, perhaps it even makes sense.

In the Middle Ages, in the absence of heirs, it was always the woman's fault. Classic. No one will even check.

@raddish81: That's the twist....

@Anagramma: Yes, you're right. Very sorry. Well, I'm only in favor of Oakdell sitting on the throne of Taliga)))) If everything turns out this way, I'll give you a standing ovation.

@raddish81: it's a curious version, I don't even mind, but in this case, another slipper flies in the direction of the director :) Because to show in the seduction scene that Dickon is seeing Marianne or Katari is an elementary transformation that even teenagers from tiktok can do. This would be unsatisfactory, and understandable from the point of view of psychology, and would serve as a justification for this version. And so it turns out that a boy in love with the queen sees another aunt (!) who is old enough to be his mother during sex with the woman he loves. And only from the words of this aunt do we know that he called another name in the process :)

@Beara: No, it was when Marianne asked him about his name that he saw Katari in Marianne's place as a moment in the process.

@Anagramma: not quite. The whole seduction and dancing scene is shot by Marianne. And a half-fainting Richard. But in the morning, after our boy woke up with full awareness of what had happened and with whom (he also spoke about it) Marianne asks if he remembers whose name he was saying, and then he's like, oh, bliiiiin... And a picture of Katari. It's too late. It can even be regarded as a torment of conscience, or an erotic fantasy, which was prompted by the words of a woman. Like, he's good, he fucked me, and he thought about the other one - oh, yes, and really, I love the other one, exactly, exactly, now I imagine how I would do the same with her. But if the actresses had been changed a couple of times during the dance, there would have been no questions.

@Beara: He could have gotten all mixed up in his head after the drugs. I came to one, I see another, but in reality maybe there's an Alva X there at all)

@Cry_to_Heaven: идеально!

@Cry_to_Heaven: I like your fanon))) Although rape is still a crime.

@Scandias: I like the mystical line, it's quite distinctive. But of course, due to the fact that galloping across Europe does not allow the characters to reveal themselves, and this is a big minus.

@Anagramma: they just shove her in the forehead (there was no such thing in the books, mysticism is very carefully introduced there.

@motokokisaragi: well, at least she's a pretty girl) A little wooden, of course. But she's fresh. Maybe he'll learn more.

@raddish81: Well, I had to learn first, and then get into the main roles.🤷♀️

@motokokisaragi: this is usually uneducated.

@ramzy: I totally agree with you.

@motokokisaragi: She's not in the lead role.

@raddish81: Yes, they also recruited very charismatic comrades for the male roles.