s04e05 — Bottom of the Pot

22 Feb 2021, 00:10 #

@MattONeid: this was not shown, but in fact it took place because the king pardoned his confidant and ennobled his execution. Durham had to go through all the steps according to the protocol.

13 May 2021, 20:21 #

@adini_at: Yes, Heinrich said in this episode that he hates Durham more, because he seduced Catherine. And Thomas just continued what Darem had started.

17 Oct 2021, 01:19 #

@illseethese: And if I were Harry, I'd be letting the dogs loose on Tom. When Derem was in Catherine's life, no one could even think about the future. She lived the typical life of the daughter of a poor family, albeit an aristocratic one. And what manners prevailed in the duchess's house and what the society of all these ladies was like, it is not at all surprising that Kitty also inclined to a general low morality. Apparently, in her case, this situation with Durham is not the most pleasant, but also not the most shameful.
But what happened to Tom is treason without excuses. No matter how I feel about the reasons for Catherine's behavior.

maryerdmann

31 Jan 2017, 13:35 #

How beautifully Anna's execution was shown and how vile this execution was shown...

Ctixia

11 Feb 2017, 05:04 #

@itserdmann: maybe because Anna was innocent of the charges, and Catherine was really stupid and depraved?..

katy_mc_gann

23 May 2017, 19:03 #

@Ctixia: And she really loved the king.

20 Jul 2024, 22:51 #

@katy_mc_gann: Anna didn't like the King

Indriblets

12 Mar 2017, 06:14 #

and I liked that before she died she did not lie, there is some dignity in this, which was not there during her lifetime

13 May 2021, 20:24 #

@Indriblets: Yes, her words that she would rather be Culpeper's wife sound strange, but it's not until you remember what Henry the 8th looked like in real life. If he were like Reese Myers, she wouldn't need Culpeper IMHO.

katy_mc_gann

23 May 2017, 18:31 #

I can't be unequivocal about her personality. on the one hand, she is not to blame for the fact that, as she admitted, she grew up without upbringing among the horseradish people. She was corrupted from a young age. I had a superficial idea of how to behave in high society at court + 17 years is a stupid age.
But on the other hand, you have been made a queen(!!!!) so behave accordingly, there are several worthy examples around. She probably just got the chicken brains from her genes, if she got them at all.
I don't even want to talk about the king, apparently I've never received good lullabies from anyone in my life, but I should prescribe it to him at least once. Everyone is always guilty of everything, but not him

kltknk

28 Jun 2017, 20:01 #

I danced

VictoriaFlicker

28 Jun 2017, 23:09 #

How many Tomas are there :D

irene_ks

22 Nov 2017, 03:31 #

What made me laugh and disappointed at the same time was how Catherine's two lovers were shown: one a sadist and a rapist, the other just a moral freak. Why, I ask, so that they would not be pitied later? Who are these moves designed for, who are they holding us for?) I was waiting for more character depth from this series.
Although these are not the only claims)

mysh_krodetsya

05 Nov 2018, 02:56 #

I am glad that Lady Rochward got what she deserved, because she was one of those who unfairly slandered Anna

LL345

14 Sep 2020, 16:53 #

@mysh_krodetsya: She took revenge on Anna for marrying a gay brother.

ScarlettLine

20 Aug 2019, 10:24 #

At least one of those executed in four seasons, guilty and innocent, did not wish good luck and prosperity to the merciful king, but said what he thought

17 Oct 2021, 01:47 #

@ScarlettLine: well, from the point of view of the series, of course, yes, but in reality it was customary to praise the king even on the scaffold.
Although I can imagine how difficult it is to praise Henry at all, and even more disgusting without guilt.

Ryouchi

27 Sep 2019, 00:51 #

Why has everyone been accusing Catherine of debauchery and wishing her death for five episodes?
Guys, maybe I don't understand something, but the main moral freak and pervert is Henry.

Catherine was a little girl, without upbringing and care, who was abused by Derem. What kind of "genes" and chicken brains are we talking about here, are you out of your mind? Or did she seduce him, like Lolita "poor" Humbert? Let's continue to justify pedophilia, why not.
Catherine wasn't much older than she was when Henry took over. Whatever her behavior, His Majesty fucked a girl of 16-17 years old in both mouth and ears. Let me remind you, before that, he did not get up for Anna of Cleves and other women. And he stood at attention at the little girl of the graying man.
The possessed bastard Thomas seduced the queen, apparently he is also attracted to those who are younger and lagging behind in development.
But it is Catherine who is terrible and vile in the opinion of most. Surprisingly.

in_our_love

26 Feb 2020, 20:18 #

@Ryouchi: do not forget that patriarchy reigns then and in our time, which means that a woman is always to blame for everything and is bad, unfortunately

20 Jul 2024, 22:54 #

@Ryouchi: Why is it just her? All the characters are disgusting here

KaterinaVoyler

13 Dec 2019, 01:53 #

Ryouchi, I didn't understand what the problem was, even nowadays 16 years is the age of consent, and even more so in those days. What kind of pedophilia can we talk about? She is not a little girl who has not reached sexual maturity, but a very sensual young woman who will not be satisfied by everyone.
In general, the fact that some men or women find younger people more seductive is absolutely normal, it has always been so. This is human nature.
As for the violence from Durham, according to the script, these are just the words of Miss Howard. In her bed conversation with a friend from Lambeth, it did not seem that such a thing had taken place. In addition, there is a hint of elements of lesbian relationships. Maybe Ballmer raped her too?

Of course, I understand that Catherine wanted to die as beautifully as her cousin Anna, and decided to make the public contact of her neck with the block as elegant as possible, for which she decided to practice a little, but why undress. In the end, everything went wrong, as did most of this girl's life. She succeeded in an elegant gesture, but before that she shat herself right on the scaffold (((
Henry is in his repertoire, it was his environment that forcibly forced him to marry such a "hot girl", he didn't really want to.
When did Seymour's wife grow such a belly???

13 May 2021, 20:33 #

@KaterinaVoyler: Joan got off easy, considering she was hiding the truth about Catherine's affair with Durham.

NEOSET

29 Oct 2020, 13:36 #

And I still didn't understand who planted the letter? Rochford? Is that why she cried so much and later pretended to be insane, because such people were not executed at that time? (before changes) But it is unlikely that she was so "advanced" in such matters, she hardly thought so far.

Лера_Романенко

23 Jan 2021, 04:09 #

It seems that at the end of episode 4 it was clear that the letter was written by a man's hand and, perhaps, it was still a page. I don't know, though, what he was counting on in the end.

NEOSET

15 Feb 2021, 19:47 #

@lillerik: I didn't notice it at the time. Thanks for the clarification.

13 May 2021, 20:35 #

@lillerik: Damn it, Derem, when boozy said that he slept with the queen, he said it to an unshaven man, so he wrote a letter along the way. I don't see any other candidates. Neither Rochford nor Culpeper benefited from this.

22 Feb 2021, 00:13 #

I can't bring myself to blame Catherine, although she should have been more careful. But there is clearly not enough space to justify my position here.
But I can't help but note how bravely Henry has everything to blame and how demonstratively he has fun when the life of each of his wives ends.

13 May 2021, 20:37 #

@adini_at: Catherine just cuckolded the king, you'd think what to blame her for... But I would not have executed, but excommunicated from the court, exiled to the same abbey. But this is how I think in the 21st century, and then the mores were different, then they made a show out of executions for the amusement of the public. Without these shows, their lives would probably be boring and dull.

14 May 2021, 14:08 #

@illseethese: Well, let's remember that she didn't do it from a good life? She is 17 years old at best. I do not think that a young, cheerful, and liberated woman was delighted with marital duties with an old, fat, sick man (even if he is not fat in the series, he has a complex character, well, and no trauma that makes its own adjustments). Who, first of all, will never admit it to himself. She still didn't have the intelligence and experience to hide the relationship. If she were older, she would sit perfectly on two chairs. In short, this is.
Is it her fault that Henry does not correlate his desires and possibilities? Was she supposed to bury her temperament alive next to him? She is young and stupid, but he is older and more experienced and no better than her at the same time.
Exactly. Kitty did not deserve to be executed for her youth. Again, she didn't have the sense in those circumstances to confirm her engagement to Durham. Everything would be covered up. Her marriage to Henry was annulled, and she was exiled. Unlike Catherine and Anna, she did not have children who would lose their status. Everything would be fine. Not all monasteries have strict morals, Kitty would have lived happily for herself. And the execution...Well, yes, the show. But in the case of Henry, it is also to show the whole world how poor and unhappy he is. He liked to feel sorry for himself more.

17 May 2021, 18:16 #

@adini_at: And if she had verbally confirmed her engagement to Durham, would that have been enough? There were no documents, after all. They could have faked it, but why? Henry didn't really care if Catherine lived or not.

17 May 2021, 20:46 #

@illseethese: then marriage with the king would be recognized as "sinful cohabitation", as with the first wife. Perhaps that would have been enough for Henry. Maybe Culpeper would have survived.
Perhaps Kitty would have been punished as Durham's "unfaithful wife", but this is a different scale of the sentence. Or maybe there would have been nothing. Henry would just feel sorry for himself and forget about them altogether.

20 Jul 2024, 22:55 #

@adini_at: Well, Henry is an asshole. But when Catherine and Jane died, the serial king sobbed

LBlack

01 May 2021, 17:57 #

Comment has been deleted

cutebutdevil

13 Oct 2023, 13:07 #

как же приятно было смотреть как генрих бегал и кричал «она изменила, она изменила мне». карма, почувствовал на своей шкуре какого это, когда тебе изменяют🤭 кэтрин все же жаль, ну по сути она же ребенок, всего то 17 лет на момент казни, росшая не пойми с кем и в каких условиях, умом не блещет, так еще и подвергавшаяся насилию в детстве(да, 14 это еще ребенок, не созревший ни физически, ни интеллектуально, чтобы отдавать себе полный отчет что происходит и не вестись на манипуляции со стороны)

id386471659

10 Nov 2023, 23:26 #

Какое же чудовище Генрих!!! Кроме омерзения ничего не вызывает!!! Кэтрин вообще не виню, бедная глупенькая девочка, попавшая в лапы похотливых старых КОЗЛОВ!!!

Olglem

17 Jun 2024, 12:54 #

If I were the women of those years, I wouldn't mess with Henry, how can you want to live with a maniac??Yes, he is a king, but damn, there must be an instinct for self-preservation.

20 Jul 2024, 22:56 #

@Olglem: everything is conducted on money and power

Olglem

21 Jul 2024, 02:37 #

@rogueFOX: this is true, but not everyone understands how money and power can turn out. So the women of those years had no rights, and to become dependent on such a terrible person as Henry is generally dark. Today I love you, tomorrow I will execute you

velbovets_denis