@imolja: they are both full-fledged parents. no one is a parent more or less. one of the parents decided to move, therefore, the child must leave home, school, etc. And if the position is "mom is one", then the question is not about the plot, but about the personal attitude to same-sex marriage.
@lightlana: so mom is a little more of a parent than dad? or is a woman who gave birth and left a child in a baby's house more of a parent than an adopted family?
@lightlana: the fact that you write "closer", "closer", and from the fact that you add "a little", the essence does not change. there are different moms, different dads. in this case, the child had 2 mothers who loved and took care of him equally, and it is incorrect to say who is closer or closer. That's what I think. (I'm glad the judge thinks the same)))
@lightlana: so the girl wrote at the very beginning why they chose one of two good parents for full custody "one of the parents decided to move, therefore, the child must leave home, school, etc.".
@katena18: No, I'm not talking about the fact that Mom is alone. I agree that they are full-fledged parents. Below, all my thoughts have already been written by Kelly's supporters (no, the argument that she gave birth is not unambiguous for me, but everything else) Both lawyers played dirty, but even in court, except for Arizona's last statement "whoever won....", it all came out in favor of Kelly. And based on their history, I'm leaning towards Kelly. Therefore, this decision is not clear to me. And it turned out like in the parable of the two mothers and King Solomon ((
@lightlana: because the court was originally for full custody. They could not award a partial award on it in any way. And Kelly didn't even agree to a partial one, as it was clear from the beginning of the series, maximum visitation rights on vacations and holidays.
@imolja: and I absolutely do not understand how it is possible for the sake of some girl, to decide the fate of a child?! Let the redhead be a hundred times wonderful, she is certainly nobody to Sofia. But Kelly essentially proceeded from her own interests and Penny's interests, and Sofia just dragged along with her. Arizona was thinking more about her daughter. Kelly rather chose Penny.
@cherie-marie: in fact, yes, but Arizona also proceeded from its own - I will break up with my daughter. The first from whose lips I heard that they were talking about the child, and not about themselves, were their lawyers. Kelly and Arizona themselves talked exclusively about themselves all the way. Although the argument was given below that Kelly could look windy for the judge, but this is the reverse side, we have watched the life of the characters, we know what they had, and we are on someone's side. But the judge knows too little, I don't understand at all how, based on such a small amount of information, such a global decision can be made.
Hooray, hooray!!! I was worried and rooting for Arizona the whole series. I'm so glad that she was given full custody. And I agree with what she said to Kelly, "those things that you let talk about me.. I would never do that." I am very, very glad!
April and Jackson Milahi. They sort everything out themselves, very calmly. The two heroes have matured so much since last seasons.
And this is the moment when Arizona comes into the operating room and begins to lead the process, while remaining in absolute calm and with a smile on her face! Without her, the child would definitely not have survived.
It's hard to be happy for Arizona when you're crying with Kelly. breaks between them. I really hope that they will fix it somehow, or I don't even know. but there was joy when Meredith mentioned Mark. such sweet memories, thank you so much for that!
@JakiraPresley: Callie has chosen a new love. why should Arizona suffer because of this? and if it were the other way around? If Arizona had decided to move? I don't think she would have been much supported
@katena18: I totally agree. Callie decided to move and didn't even consult with Arizona. I just put it in front of the fact. Actually, it's her own fault.
@katena18: Stop praising Arizona! Neither of the other mothers even asked their daughter who she wants to live with, where she wants to live. And Sofia's phrase in the series, when Arizona left her "And I don't love you", was left without attention at all. And I thought that every time I leave her, and as it was said, she has much more blockage at work than Kelly, every time the child will suffer. Moreover, she has not arranged her personal life yet, they said correctly in court. And when Kelly informed her about the move, I see no one was confused that Arizona automatically decided that Kelly would come from New York to visit her daughter, and Sofia would stay with Arizona. No, this is the norm. And the fact that Kelly wanted to take her daughter, it's terrible. Arizona is the fastest means to fly to her daughter, and Kelly is normal from her point of view.
I also think that Arizona won fairly. I think for our reality it seems strange just because we don't have two moms. But in fact, what Kelly's biological mother doesn't say is that Arizona is worse or not worthy. I couldn't decide for myself who I was rooting for in this situation, until Kelly's lawyer started saying these terrible things about Arizona and walking through the mud, it became very unpleasant that they could reduce her role as a mother. And it is clear that since she was ready to step back from the fight, saying that it doesn't matter who wins - the main thing is that the child will be fine, this became the key for the judge. It's a pity Edwards, of course, she acted badly, but she really has feelings for this musician, I hope everything will work out. And it looks like everything will get better for April, they will be together. OFFTOP: for the second series, the operator can't cope with Jessica's stomach) usually she was filmed to the waist, but here you can see what kind of a barrel she is) The mention of Mark always warms the soul.
@Juliat: We don't have two moms, but there is an option with unrelated children. Imagine a situation where a man marries a pregnant woman, who then almost dies in an accident. Then this man loses his leg and eats out the brain of a woman who has been supporting him, the house, the child, etc. all this time. To the heap, this man also cheats, making absolutely stupid excuses. And then the child's mother is taken away and given full custody of this very stepfather - and the mother is not some kind of marginal, but a successful person who has a couple, etc. I'm sorry, I don't get it in my head. From a native successful normal mother to take the child and give it to a non-native woman ... Well, they would also have done IVF there, like many lesbians, planned, and Kelly carried it out - but no, Kelly accidentally got pregnant from Mark, she and Arizona did not initially plan a common child.
I don't understand Arizona's position at all - she didn't want Sofia to be taken away - so maybe it would be possible to go to court in some other way, and not ask for "full custody", actually taking the child away from Kelly.
@lightlana: it's just your approach - "non-native mom". If everyone treated it that way, then there would be no adoptions at all, because everyone would say, "you are unrelated parents." They are both full-fledged parents
@lightlana: I will not comment on the first part of your message, because we will differ in our views on this matter and nothing good will come out of disputes. But about "why did Arizona do this", I didn't understand you) did you, I'm sorry, have you watched the last series carefully? It wasn't her who started the custody thing, but both of them, by the way, in this episode Kelly decided that they were going to court. Arizona asked for help to decide what to do here, and not with the words "hello, lawyer, let's file a court petition for full custody," because they discussed the options for the first part of the series on the phone, and when they realized that BOTH did not like the options, the case came to court.
@lightlana: it's not true, the stepfather (or stepmother) has the right to adopt a child in the absence of this child's second parent or the deprivation / rejection of his parental rights.
Riley? Did Arizona deserve custody more? She has more employment at work (urgent. the figures showed it, the situation in court showed it), her personal life is really not arranged - where did the lawyer lie? Why is Kelly worse? OK, they are equal, they are both mothers and all that, but where are the disadvantages of Kelly and the advantages of Arizona? If they are playing the card of the "Solomon Solution", then let's start with the fact that it was Arizona that filed the lawsuit. And then tearfully says, "after all, we are loving mothers anyway."..
Lawyer Kelly's "dirty game"? And the Arizona lawyer is all in a white coat? Questioning Penny's love for the child and asking what Sofia was wearing today is OK, is that what love proves?? Is it normal to ask Mer about her husband's death, etc.?
@lightlana: now it will be my imho, I draw your attention. 1- employment at work is not an indicator of which parent is better off or not. By the way, Kelly is leaving for a new city, where there will be a new job, and who knows what schedule she will have there. And Arizona only has the specifics of the work that is more in demand, so to speak, that's why the number of hours. 2- how does the unsettled state of her personal life affect the question? 3- Arizona did not file a lawsuit, Arizona turned to a lawyer, and they BOTH went to court when they could not agree at the beginning of the series on how to divide custody. 4- Kelly's lawyer was just more vile, and Arizona's lawyer didn't run over Kelly (!!!) and it was absolutely normal to ask Penny, whom Kelly has known for a couple of months, and for whom she is going to take the child away. This is a normal practice, because the question from the category "favorite toy" is not a detail, lawyers can prepare for this in advance when they say what possible questions there may be. The question about clothes is bullshit, but the question about school is an indicator, and very significant. 5- do not confuse your personal feelings with a professional approach to the work of a lawyer. She could be nasty and say, "You're a single mom, right?" what would be much more unpleasant than showing your condolences to a person, and then explaining why you ask such a question, it was also unpleasant for me in this situation, but this is the work of a lawyer, it's not about dirt, she asked about the fact, and did not start accusing someone, etc. So yes, it was a normal question from the point of view of work, not a personal relationship.
@Juliat: Well, so I imho write, here no one speaks the truth. 1 - we are not talking about well-being, we immediately wrote ourselves that it is decided what is best for the child. Kelly will initially have less work in the new city, this was mentioned in previous episodes back when Kelly decided to go. 2 - no way, a full/incomplete family does not matter at all. only what matters? change of address and school? 3- ok, without accepting a single offer from the other side to say that "it doesn't matter how everything is resolved," especially in the context of the story with the Solomon decision, it is incorrect, again, imho. 4 - well, Kelly's lawyer absolutely normally asked how many times Arizona goes to the bar with him. Kelly hasn't known Penny for a couple of months, Penny has known Sofia for a couple of months, because Kelly weighed it for a long time before introducing her daughter to her. About school- why do they ask Penny at all. Is the child being given to her? That is, it's disgusting to show how many times Arizona went to the bar, but it's not disgusting to interview Penny and show that she doesn't like the child because she got confused in classes? 5 - I'm just not confused. I show that both are good, they are both lawyers. It's you who write "Lawyer Kelly was more vile" about some of your criteria determining the degree of vile.
In general, I will not argue anymore. Everyone, I think, will remain with his opinion. Shonda is doing a great job here, she snapped :)
@lightlana: 2- so Penny is not a family yet, besides, everything was not so smooth when they get married- let's talk about who is single and who is not, where is a full family and where is not. 3- I didn't understand this sentence. Arizona is tired of fighting, because there really is no better here, but only two loving parents who don't want to lose a child (seeing her 2 times a year is really cruel) 4- well, yes, in the series she said about Sofia, but she and Kelly obviously haven't known each other for more than a year = a few months. Yes, because Penny has a 3 wheel here, and showing her shoals does not blacken Kelly, but showing Arizona shoals blackens Arizona. They asked about the school because it's important information, how can you not know such things if you are close to a child, as Kelly's lawyer is trying to show? 5- well, as you said yourself, this is my opinion, therefore my criteria. And it's disgusting, because they tried to show Arizona from such a bad side, Arizona's lawyer did not try to show what kind of mother Kelly was, besides, she did not know that Penny would not be able to answer the question about school or clothes, which means the goal was to find out how close the child really is with her. I just don't understand why you were so hooked on Penny's interrogation when it was perfectly reasonable. A parent meets with a left-handed person, then decides to leave for this person taking the child with him, of course I want to understand how the child will be in this situation, what kind of relationship the child has with this left-handed person, because he is being taken to live with his family. I didn't see anything wrong with the lawyer's questions to Penny.
I think Shonda had such a goal, so that everyone would break up into camps)
@lightlana: yes, you are fucking sick of writing nasty things about incomplete families. A huge number of single-parent families, in which children are much more careful and happier than in the same large number of full ones. The child's well-being does not depend on the number of adults in the family.
@Aphina: Dear, read the letters again, please, and indicate exactly what "nasty things" I wrote about single-parent families. Or where I denied that there are excellent single-parent families. This is just one of the factors that is usually taken into account. Like many others. Everyone knows this, but for some reason they are embarrassed to say it out loud, so that the kind and tolerant with cries of "ohreneli" do not begin to prove something that was not denied.
@Juliat: Seeing a child twice a year? What kind of nonsense is this? Are they going to the other side of the world? To another country? 6 hours on a plane is a great problem to see your daughter? She's at work all the time, who will Sofia be with, with a babysitter? Kelly has a simpler situation, especially since there is a soul mate, it's easier to take care of the child together. Why was there such a fuss to arrange at all. In my opinion, it was shown too little for this in the series that Arizona loves her daughter and spends a lot of time with her. Her feelings about the unsettled state in her personal life were shown more. Stop praising Arizona and shitting Kelly. For that matter, they're both wrong. How the child will live now, when he was forcibly deprived of his beloved parent, is unknown. They didn't ask where she wanted to live and with whom. And how much Kelly endured from Arizona, for their life together, and now she has lost a child... It's not fair. Blamed her for everything, cheated on her, poisoned her life. And you say it like it's white and fluffy
@lightlana: mind you, she didn't announce that Derek's death was due to Penny's mistake, she was only talking about single mothers. She did not question love either, she only pointed out that Penny does not know the child so well, since she does not know what class he is in.
@lightlana: and think about how the judge perceived Kelly in general, not knowing all the details, which only fans of the series know about :) a brief summary - a woman who has been married starts a same-sex relationship, during which she has an affair on the side with a man from whom she becomes pregnant, now she has a new relationship that is not even six months old, but for which she is ready to leave friends and work, and most importantly, to snatch her daughter from the familiar world and take her to another the end of the country. it looks kind of windy. and it was strange to talk about the workload and the number of calls, imho, in court. any surgeon, despite his irreplaceability, can influence his schedule. Arizona had a lot of challenges, so it all depends on what happened, who to leave the child with, she didn't raise her alone.
The situation is terrible. Kelly's lawyer really played dirty, but don't forget. that if Arizona ITSELF hadn't destroyed their family, then this situation wouldn't have happened. Somehow Arizona didn't think about her daughter and wife when she cheated, and now she's a super mom when Kelly decided to arrange her life. Don't forget that Arizona turned to a lawyer without even talking to Kelly. She doesn't give a shit about anyone but herself.
@nikitanka: All this was still talk. After making a decision, yes, there might have been a conversation. The baby can't be torn apart, but it's not Kelly's fault. that she's trying to start a new family. Kelly as a mother is not to blame for anything and as a biological mother in this particular situation has more rights.
Biologically, there is no one like a parent-educator, yes, and there is only a meeting agreement and so on. But full custody is out of the question. Why was Kelly's child taken away from her?
Arizona didn't want children, and in general, she and Kelly broke up because of this, then Arizona left Kelly after leaving for six months, then changed ... But for some reason Kelly turned out to be the scapegoat, because there may still be resentment in her and her lawyer said too much.
And Arizona is all in white. I don't understand all this.
@miv-mouse: for a child, they are both the same mom. he doesn't remember who gave birth to him. why do you divide everything into black and white? Kelly is not an asshole, just had to make a choice. and the judge made it in favor of a child who is used to school, friends and life in this city. no one asked the child if he wanted to leave. and I think he doesn't want to at all!
@Tasya_one: We can't think for Sofia, because this character hasn't been revealed to us at all for almost a couple of years. Children of her age may be attached more to one parent than to another, and we don't know her relationship to school either.
Here everything is decided by "adults", and I am increasingly convinced of Shonda's personal cockroaches. She has already ruined her relationship in her project.
If she thinks in the end to repeat the success of Tibette (sex in another city), then she is very wrong. There, with all the foolishness, at least the child was not touched.
@miv-mouse: It wasn't just talk - Arizona was confronted with the fact. Sofia's school has already been found (!).
Biologically... biologically, we are all nobody to each other. Biologically, a husband and wife, for example, are nobody to each other, so what? Any fool with a uterus can give birth, you try to bring up, to raise a person. And here just biological kinship is generally the tenth thing.
@nikitanka: And here is a fool with a uterus. Kelly has not discredited herself as a mother in any way. Why is her child being taken away from her? It was Arizona who broke up the firewood and destroyed the family. Kelly has something to do with it.
@nikitanka: All other things being equal, Arizona is the culprit of the divorce and, yes, the child should have stayed with a parent who did not destroy the family and did not discredit himself in any way. This parent is Kelly, who moreover offered the child a stable environment.
And no matter how they say here that the biological component is not important, but it is not. If something serious happens to the child, then first of all a blood relative, not a guardian, will be able to help her.
I will stop the argument at this point. If even before this series I still hoped that calzona could return, then I think it's impossible now, because Shonda decided to destroy everything in the bud under the joyful hooting of Arizona fans.
It seems to me that the operator is not only unable to cope with the pregnancy of Jessica (Arizona), but also forgot that she doesn't seem to have a leg. And in dresses, skirts and heels, she, it seems, should not appear (because there the prosthesis should be visible))). And at the expense of the series, it is difficult, of course, to judge with whom to leave the child. I feel sorry for both (
@ZarinaPete: it's not about the cameraman, but the director then, but it's about the stomach, although I personally didn't notice anything. but what's wrong with the leg? she has a special prosthesis for heels and at the end of the series it is clear that the tights are white, and one leg looks as if whiter.
@imolja: yes, the directors have already scored on this leg for a long time, I remember, I even left a comment on this last season - an Arizona girl is running in stilettos.
@ShaneRay: a six-year-old child shouldn't have stayed in Kelly, it's very hard for a biological mother to carry such a big guy.
In our country, recently, one biological mother threw her newborn baby into the toilet at a gas station. The child survived, the mother is on trial, and then the child's grandmother came to me: they say, you give it to me - the biological mother will come out, she will bring up, but for now I will look after. Let's leave the baby with the biological mother! Because DNA is the same! Hurray!
@nikitanka: that is, if during the divorce with the second husband, he would have decided to sue you for the right of full custody of your child from the first husband, would you have decided that he did not give a fuck and everything is fine, has the right? I would, for example, ahuela so young from one such proposal.
@ShaneRay: if this person raised a child From BIRTH and as a legitimate daughter, and not as a stepdaughter, then he would have every right to sue the child, in case of mom's urgent desire to dump with a new lover, taking her daughter.
@miv-mouse: that's what I'm talking about. if she cared so much that the child had a full-fledged family of two mothers, then she would not have gone somewhere to the left and would not have destroyed the family. she's twice selfish. and Kelly is just so fucking sorry. you give birth, you love your woman, you think that the family is my dick, and then they cheat on you, so they also take away the child. and they didn't even mention it at the trial.
@ShaneRay: the judge left the child in Seattle, I'm writing for the umpteenth time. not with the best mom, but in the best place. they are both not without sin. sofia also turned out because of infidelity.
@Tasya_one: Well, there were several episodes. Arizona wanted to fly to Africa and Kelly was going to be with her. But at the airport, Arizona decided that Kelly didn't want it enough, thereby ruining her dream and flew away alone. After a few episodes (in the series 7 months) she came back and apologized to Kelly for a long time and persistently (there were really interesting episodes, especially the relationship between Mark and Arizona) Well, in the absence of Arizona, Kelly was very worried and eventually slept with Mark, who always supported her and really loved her.
And Kelly understood herself even before she met Arizona with a cardiologist surgeon. I don't remember her name.
@ShaneRay: "in our country," I wrote only to make it clear where everything happened, I just don't live in Russia, but in Kazakhstan. Just to make it clearer. I wasn't going to touch the judicial system. Described a real recent resonant case.
I imagined that, for example, my ex-husband was a wonderful father to our child from the very beginning. And the child is attached to him. The child has a lot of babysitters, friends, school. And so I was going with a new boyfriend to pull somewhere in another city, taking the child. OF COURSE, I WOULD AT LEAST DISCUSS THIS ISSUE WITH MY EX-HUSBAND. Because he was a good father and does not deserve to be separated from the child just because I had to have sex more often. Well, or, I repeat, Kelly at least should have discussed this issue, and not put it before the fact: I'm taking Sofia away, I've looked after a good school there, you'll see each other on vacation.
@nikitanka: I won't argue about the question "it would be worth discussing", because yes, it was worth it, it's a fact, but otherwise I can't agree, because I have completely different visions of the "correctness" of the situation
@ShaneRay: And how does cheating relate to Sofia's upbringing? Arizona made the mistake of being deeply depressed, but it was Kelly who destroyed the family by filing for divorce. Which of them would it help in court?
Very significantly, at the very end, Kelly pulled her hand out of Penny's hands. The decision pleased me, of course. I didn't believe that Arizona would win the trial, but I was honestly rooting for her. They're both good mothers. But as a human being, Kelly was wrong from the very beginning.
@zzqc: after Arizona made a speech that no matter how it ends, the main thing is for Sofia to be well, it became clear that she would have custody, because that's exactly what happened in the Bible, too)
All right. Kelly, when deciding to move, was obliged to think about both her daughter and her ex-wife (who actually needs to see this daughter at least). A strange position: I fell in love, I want to change my life abruptly, so let's also change the usual way of life (let the daughter get used to the new school and friends, and let Arizona spend time and money on endless flights and sees her daughter only in snatches). Yes, and I didn't come to Arizona from the very beginning to discuss all this and look for options TOGETHER. Although, of course, all this is still very cruel and emotionally difficult. But I'm on the side of Arizona all the same.
@scherbakov: How original. Shouldn't Arizona have thought of a real wife and daughter? And here is a strange position, I wanted to have sex on the side, and Kelly has to sort it out. Not on a whim, Kelly decided to fall in love and change her life abruptly licking her wounds.
@miv-mouse: Well, you will also remember how Sofia was born in general, remember Mark and their non-standard relationship with Kelly. Remember what happened to Calzone back then. Remember why Arizona changed the situation in which both women found themselves. And it is not known what you and I would do in their place. So don't go so deep, imho.
@miv-mouse: This series, of course, is very ambiguous and everyone will remain with their opinion, taking into account their life experience, views and values.
That's just how many times I see the words about Arizona's betrayal in the comments. I do not evaluate this act, but I just want to say that "not wanting to be with my wife/husband" and "not wanting to be with a child" are two different things. I don't think that children in families with two parents, in which partners do not like each other (which most often causes at least suppressed anger), but try to "keep their face" for the sake of the child, are happier than in a situation when the parents are not together, but spend the same amount of time with the child.
@anna_a: about cheating, it was the answer "oh, how dare Kelly not think about her ex-wife and child. Yeah, Arizona somehow didn't think about them either and everything is ok.
The catch is that we in Russia are used to the place of residence. And in America, moving from city to city because of work is normal weekdays. So now it remains for them to "hold their face" for the sake of the child. They are both tied to the place. Here the child will be happy.
But there's really nothing to argue about. As the comments show, most people just don't like Penny, so they turned on Kelly. There is no logic to look for here.
Everything was fairly decided. In this situation, I was all for Arizona.
Torres' facial expressions were distorted when Arizona first answered the call, and then went to the hospital. She's a surgeon, and she knew perfectly well that in this case Arizona had to go, but instead she showed something like: "Seriously?? Will you leave? Well, you're really-e-e."
Everything is right. Arizona was worthy of the judge's decision. She is worthy. And Tores herself is to blame - there was nothing to start moving without thinking about the child and ex-wife.
And Kelly, of course, is a beauty - she, of course, does not doubt and does not delay making decisions, but she does not always have time to think with her head. For which I received.
The most annoying thing is that there are no unambiguously right and guilty in this situation, and no matter who was awarded full custody, everything would be unfair. But Arizona honestly tried to find a compromise, and more than once, so yes, I'm still on her side. But I still really hope that she will remain an adult and will not interfere with Sofia seeing Kelly.
According to rumors, Sarah Ramirez is leaving the project. If so, then Shonda is in her repertoire. Here not only the child will be taken away, but he can also kill without blinking an eye. Moreover, there has been talk about death at the end of the season for a long time
Somehow I booted up after this series. In general, this is probably the only series, after watching which, I still sit and think about the events that happened in the series for a while)) But if by nature: I was all for Arizona. She and only she is 100% right. You can't just take and change a child's place of residence, friends, school, etc. for the sake of a redhead. At the same time, without even consulting with the second parent. And Robins was right that what distinguishes her is that she will never say dirt, unlike Kelly. This situation forced me to look at Kelly in a new way, and now I can't perceive her normally . P.S. the tummy of the actress played by Arizona is already very noticeable. I hope she will continue to play and she will not be merged)) P.P.S. I want to see more of Alex!
The moment in the bar with "I'm calling Kyle! GIVE ME THE PHONE" just :D In general, they have a sad line, I want them to be together.
The moment when Kelly drops Penny's hand. Who would doubt it. Both are to blame, in fact, but to decide to drag the child away like this, and without even trying to initially discuss it with the second parent - that's the result. And what her lawyer said about Arizona... it was disgusting.
Arizona has become more confident in herself, but Kelly behaves like in the first season, somehow frivolous or something. As Bailey correctly said: "You are the head of the department, and you want to give up everything for an intern?". I kanesh understand love all things, but damn, she already has another responsibility. And so, based on this, for some reason I was sure that Arizona would win.
I am very glad that Arizona has received full custody. And I really liked her lawyer, although it was nice to listen to her. She was talking about the mother and the child, and not throwing mud at Sofia's second mother, as lawyer Torres did. In general, it sounds rude, but I hope this will be a lesson for Kelly. Lately, her character has only been disappointing. And even after that, she looked askance at Penny, threw her hand off her shoulder as if she was the only one to blame for what happened. I'm pretty sure that Torres almost doesn't blame himself, and then he'll just go and tell all the rest of the dirt to Penny and Arizona. And now I'm almost sure that this will lead to the breakup of Kelly and Penny's relationship, the second will go to New York, and the first will stay in Seattle, because the only thing that does not change in Torres is her love for her daughter.
The series is very good. Kelly has been infuriating terribly this season. In fact, I got what I wanted to do with Arizona. But all the same, now she will blame anyone but herself... In this series, she really pissed Mer off with her phrase "Yes, we are single mothers together." It was very ugly in relation to Arizona. The cameramen, by the way, are completely messing around filming Arizona. At the beginning of the series in a skirt, heels - I even revised, maybe it seemed - but no.
@Amishka: Yes, it was unpleasant to look at Mer here. Also, these arguments about we have a village, as if all this is just for Kelly, and Arizona is an outsider, and no one will help her here, and Sofia will be left to her fate. And if she really meant it, then it gets even nastier.
I join the majority who are happy for Arizona! I am especially glad that she got full custody. Lawyer Tores is a nasty woman. And in general, despite the fact that Kelly was supported by most of her colleagues, in fact, her trump cards eventually played against her. However, without knowing it, it's just that the Arizona lawyer turned out to be smarter than her colleague in the shop. I agree with the Arizona lawyer's policy, all her questions concerned the child, she did not try to play dirty. As a result, this influenced the decision of fate. And I find it insulting to call Kelly a single mother. If Arizona had severed all ties with her daughter, then it would be possible to talk. And anyway, Kelly was walking on very thin ice. Everything would have been acceptable if she hadn't selfishly decided to take Sofia to another city, thereby depriving Arizona of frequent visits to her daughter. Penny....Well, I never liked her. So I wouldn't be surprised if Kelly leaves her, not forgetting to release all the "dogs" and accusing her of having lost custody through her fault. Anyway, Kelly is too susceptible to feelings and emotions. Arizona is assembled in this regard. Entering the operating room, we see a highly qualified specialist, but Kelly began to give in to difficulties.
Uuuh, this is an episode. I didn't dare to look for a long time, because I expected that the court would decide to leave the child with the biological mother. I'm glad that's not the case.
I love the magic of Arizona in the operating room. She's like a goddess there. And all this with such calmness and a smile on his face.
I can't bring myself to accept Blake. well, I don't like her (maybe the moment with Derek is still to blame...).
In general, I'm a fan of Calzone, and, although Shonda does not even give up hope. I hope that eventually Sofia will grow up in a family with both her moms.
@fb481842: without filing an appeal by the judge's decision? we watched the series differently, because for me, it was Arizona's words that were the words of a real mother, ready to lose in court, just so that the child would live. and comparing the fight with the court and Arizona's fight with Russo for the child further enhanced this effect.
Funny thing they wrote over the weekend. I have already realized that, from the point of view of most, Kelly's main problem is leaving "because of some woman" without thinking about the child. Listen, did she take her to some kind of wilderness, to the bears? No, just to another city, with an excellent school and all the conditions. I took it from the "second mother" (equal parents, and so on) - and Arizona does it in the end. Did you take it from school? I love it, it's terrible! The 6-year-old will be transferred to another school!! Has no one moved anywhere in their life?
And in general, you know, everyone is so kind and "tolerant", even this honey is disgusting. The "second parent" dumps to Africa, takes out the brain about the leg, changes (read destroys the family), constantly at work - but in Seattle!! Hurrah hurrah hurrah! Kelly dared to take her daughter to another city in the hope of a good life - shame, Kelly is infuriating! Take her baby away from her! Atu!
It's a pity that Kelly's "dirty" lawyer didn't remember all the "colorful" past of this couple. There would be even more howling, but maybe an adequate decision would be made.
And some arguments about murderous mothers, foster parents of abandoned children and other things that are not in the arc to this situation at all - really, it's ridiculous.
@lightlana: I put a big and fat plus. But as I understand it, there is no question of any objectivity to the situation itself. And the child is like a bargaining chip here. It's just that most people are infuriated by Penny herself as a fact of her existence. And how did Kelly dare to move on with her life while poor lonely Arizona was going to bars.
@lightlana: Arizona left for Africa when Sofia was nowhere to be seen, after you cut off your leg, you can also make a mess, not all people can calmly accept this fact, so here you can only agree with treason. And then, yes, Arizona then acted abominably, but she didn't leave her daughter, she fought for her, although Kelly didn't really want that. And about "constantly at work" it sounds that you have that throughout the series, as if an orthopedic surgeon has such an easy specialty that operations fall out time after time, and the rest of the time to the family.
And the point here is that Arizona has been around all this time anyway, and Kelly, with the look of "a six-hour one-way flight is such a trifle", is ready to immediately drop everything and snatch the child from his usual environment, from her home, school, from her friends.
@lightlana: Wow! it's not a popularity contest or who has the best character. both idiots, because they came to this situation. and the court is about what is best for the child.
@lightlana: They wrote everything I wanted to write. I put a fat plus. On my own, I will add that in general, the child was Kelly and Mark, Arizona was against it at all. And all the time until Kelly's personal life got better, Arizona had absolutely nothing to do with Sofia.
After Arizona escaped from court for the sake of Jenny and her child, the reference to the Bible and King Solomon immediately became clear. justice in this series is a strange thing, as well as in life. I wonder how the plot will develop further, because knowing Shonda, you can expect anything)))
Kelly was definitely wrong when she confronted Arizona with the fact that we were moving and blah blah blah.They are both great mothers, but here she acted selfishly towards Arizona.But it's still hard to look at the pain at the end of the series.
always so pleased with the appearance of familiar patients! and of course I was very pleased with the ending of the series, I really love Arizona) and in general, how does the series manage to stay afloat for so long? all episodes in one go!
Apparently, I will be the third person, besides lightlana and miv-mouse, on the other side of the barricades. I read the comments and understand that most people have false ideas about life.
A 6-year-old child does not understand anything at all, you can say. Have you all forgotten how easy it is to make new acquaintances in childhood? Whoever you don't put in your sandbox is now a friend. No "deep emotional trauma for ever and ever" Sofia would not have arisen from the move. A new house? - So what. New friends? — great. New classmates? - Even better. Moving is hard, and the child REALLY DOESN'T WANT it when this child is 12+ years old. When a TEENAGER has already formed his own company, his own SOCIETY, his HOBBIES, SECTIONS, etc., i.e. when he is actually tied to a place. What Sofia has now in terms of "anchors" is nothing.
Now in general: To bring to full custody is an extreme, of course. but. If you have to choose who to give it to, it's not Arizona. And, in fact, she is more careless: all these fuckers of hers (is it possible to swear here or not?) on the side, random breakdowns to another country, jumps, paddocks, tantrums, etc. CLEARLY DO NOT PLAY IN HER FAVOR. Of course, we can find explanations for all this (and how else, the characters are spelled out), but, again, if you choose between a parent with SUCH a "cool" emotional piano in the bushes and an ordinary loving parent, then who would you choose yourself?
I'm surprised Kelly's lawyer didn't make references to Arizona's actions. And, by the way, it would be nice to put pressure on disability. Who better, all other things being equal, to take care of the child? A person with or without a disability? Do not be fooled by the far-fetched "but", "but actually", if you answer that disability does not play a role.
Emotionally, I am involved in all this at a minimum: the couple of Arizona and Kelly have never interested me; I don't care about children (both serial and even real) either. I'm just thinking from the outside, doing it as objectively as possible.
Oh, and, of course, all those "couch ethics-moralphages" who cackle: "That's how Lawyer Kelly could, ugh, get into the MUD," can you seriously not get into the banal understanding of things? What's the dirt in it? How was Arizona insulted? I help everyone who wants to take off rose-colored glasses: the trial, suddenly, in principle, the case is vile. That's the whole point: to provide your opponent's pros and cons. And minuses, also suddenly, are always something unpleasant for the other side. BANG! (the glasses fell). Maybe there was slander - no. And what happened? And there were facts that are the CONS of Arizona as a mother. And which, of course, are not pleasant to her. Hmm.. Something no longer fits in the theory about "dirt, dirt, fu", right?
@Hokage: Actually, the majority here are for Arizona because Kelly is "the first to start." She wanted to take their common child away without even discussing it with the second parent. That's all. Decent people don't do that.
I've never been a fan of Arizona, but it's hard not to take her side. Just because Kaylee is not acting rationally. Give up a great job, home, friends, take the child away...for what? Girlfriends and worse jobs? Stupidly. If you want to go, then leave the child with the same full-fledged parent as you, fly in for the weekend. Moreover, it is more difficult for Arizona to leave work for a long time, which means she would not be able to leave the city often.
a well-thought-out series down to the smallest detail. The parallels of the Arizona/Kelly, and Arizona/Russo struggles in the hospital and the same Kelly/Arizona and April/Jackson relationships. interviews of witnesses to reveal their characters more deeply. the same painful questions about Arizona's workload at work, as a reminder of Miranda's worries a couple of seasons ago, when she was afraid that because she loves her job and performs more emergency operations, people might consider her a bad mother who does not love her son. Meredith's reminders that they are all one big village and Kelly takes Sofia away from it. transferring April's fears to the patient.
I still have mixed feelings from this series - I'm kind of happy for Arizona, but I'm also sad about Callie's fate. Comments, of course, fire. Everyone is considering the issue from their bell tower (which is quite logical) and based on their experience. I also want to insert my five kopecks. Most of all, I was personally pleased with Maggie (Gray's sister), a very touching moment about her attitude to Meredith's children. In general, after these words, it was logical in which direction the series would go. Of course, I am happy for Arizona, I am sad about Kelly, but most of all I am saddened by the fate of Sofia - with two living parents who are not only divorced, to see only one of them on a regular basis... And in any case, this situation is a loss for Sofia, so I personally have the impression from all this that neither Kelly nor Arizona thought with their heads in this situation, everything is emotional. Kelly has an eclipse from Penny, and Arizona is just as impulsive as ever. In short, Sofia was the last thing anyone thought about here, so the judge decided everything was reasonable - to leave the child in a calm, familiar environment while the parents were going crazy.
@Alevis: Arizona had no choice. If she didn't do anything, then Sofia would simply be taken away, and she "would only see one of the parents on a permanent basis." So no, it was Kelly and only she who caused all this. And Arizona honestly offered to divide custody in half, but Kelly refused, at the very beginning of the series during negotiations before the court.
I agree here with many who have written a lot of good things about Arizona and on its side. What infuriated me the most about the episode was that Kellie said "I can't stop loving her" about Penny. But here, as it were, a completely different question: you need to choose between love for a child and love for a Penny. And the choice should be simple, since Kaliope is a good mother (and we all know this). You can't sit on two chairs, you can't get everything at once. You'll chase two hares, as they say. Moreover, well, it would be possible to think about the future, where is the guarantee that Penny and Callie will continue to live together happily ever after? She's gone. They are not engaged, not married, just cohabiting. And yes, I really liked how they drew an analogy with the Biblical story) Even as a child, I read it, remembered how it would end and realized, after Arizona's words about safety, that the child would stay with her)) P.S. Mer is soaaaaaa angry at Arizona...
I'm happy for Arizona and I'm not sorry for Kelly. She told this story herself, and even started playing dirty, plus I don't understand how she just decided to take the child from the second mother. The first indicator that she did not think about the child, because for Sophie, Arizona is the same mother as Kelly. Kelly thought only of herself and Penny. She decided to follow Penny, although in my opinion their relationship is quite superficial, she did not ask Penny to stay, she just decided to brazenly tear the child away from her mother and drag her away with her, because she wanted to leave after some woman. They were judged correctly. It's amazing how Mer can support Kelly if she's a mother herself...
Kelly did not receive a voluntary declaration of love from Penny, but actually begged for it. Kelly did not receive an invitation from Penny to leave together, but actually begged for it. Kelly put her own daughter on the line, in fact, she chose a mistress between her daughter and her mistress. She feels like she's doing everything wrong. But she is still rushing forward like a steam locomotive, not taking apart the road. She overestimated her chances. Penny has already ruined her life, but Kelly still doesn't see it. I think Penny's going to kick Kelly out the door soon.
Everything is fine, Kelly did not act very nicely, Arizona is right about the child, it's a pity of course that now they have quarreled and now this situation =(
I watch the series and absolutely do not like Arizona as a character: a mentally unstable, very boorish and irresponsible lady. In the situation with Sofia, I don't understand at all how it was possible to think of such a thing. She only needs Sofia as a toy to make Kelly more painful, to punish her for the flaws that Arizona stubbornly imputes to her: a severed leg, also the birth of Sofia, a Stamp, and so on. Arizona is a terrible whiner. Even when the episode with the plane was shown, remember: Arizona screaming hysterically and quiet, strong Lexi. And this contrast was not shown to us in vain. Arizona started all this in order to save her career, can you imagine what a pediatrician is who lost custody of her child? Knowing the mentality of Americans very well, I can say with accuracy and absolute certainty that this would have a bad effect on her image and the desire of people to give her their children for treatment. Arizona is selfish. And a coward. She ruined their marriage with Kelly, so she also shits Torres in every possible way in order to show herself "in all her glory." But now it will be "wonderful" to look at her whining about a proud single mom and her battle for her "daughter".
@genetic_wasp: That's how dislike for the character affects the perception of the series as a whole. 1. "She needs Sofia only as a toy" is a very interesting conclusion from nothing, apparently so for every child - one parent loves, and the second one has fun. 2. "screaming hysterically Arizona and quiet, strong Lexi" - of course, with this episode the writers wanted to show that Arizona is hysterical. Then remember Kristina in the same episode. 3. "started all this", "a pediatrician who lost custody" - as if Kelly initially did not deprive Arizona of custody, but just wanted Sofia to live with her. Arizona went to court to prevent Kelly from taking their child away so easily. I want to note that I also don't like Arizona in many moments, especially regarding some of her decisions in her marriage with Kelly, but in this situation I am completely on her side. You can't just take children away from one of the parents and consider it the norm, no matter who gave birth to him there.
There is no justice in the world! One is everything, and the other is nothing. Arizona not only got her daughter, but also magically returned a healthy leg))). Seriously, the judge's decision seems to me to be insultingly unfair. Arizona is a selfish mannered bitch. I took out my brain all the way, took the whole soul out of Kelly. Kelly was constantly giving in to her, so long as the world was in the family. And Arizona has already trampled on it to the fullest. Then she turned it around at the airport, saying that she would fly to Africa alone, then she could not come to terms with Kelly's pregnancy, then she changed it. And she didn't want to give birth herself when they decided to have another child, but it turned out that Kelly wouldn't be able to get pregnant. Yes, and she started all this quarrel with the division of Sofia. Ah-ah, Kelly will take Sofia away from Seattle. Is she going to take her to the desert, to the jungle, to a warring country? Just to New York. This is in our time, when people do nothing but travel all over the world. It's even good for the child - his horizons expand, new experience is gained. And, as I understand it, they were going to go for a year, for the duration of the grant. But leaving a child without another mother is normal. Where is the logic?
If Kelly loves Sofia so much, then why does she choose her girlfriend? It's so stupid to leave your child and still go to the other side of the country
My heart stopped at the sight of the silhouette in the door. Arizona, standing behind her, in all dark and blonde hair looked just gorgeous. Made me glad for justice, though, Kelly is also very, very sorry...
Are there already prostheses that look perfectly exactly like a real leg? Still in heels, it was very striking. I'm glad for Arizona, Kelly is in fact to blame herself for not consulting, after all, they are both Sofia's moms.
Well I do not know. In my opinion, Arizona is like a stepfather only in a skirt. Does a stepfather really have the same rights as his own mother, even if the stepfather adopted the child? It is clear that you can also love an adopted child, but in matters of custody, it is strange to give preference to the stepfather if everything is fine with the birth mother. I think (I hope) this is only possible in this series.
Does Kelly herself realize that she exchanged her daughter for this red-haired mouse, with whom she is only familiar with nothing? If she knew that this could happen, if it came to court, then why the hell not just give up this trip? No, I love Kelly, but she still hasn't grown up. She is like a big child who lights up with something and acts impulsively
I cried continuously throughout the series, I'm so sorry that all this happened to them, because they loved each other and loved each other very much, and now not only that they broke up, but also Sofia will be unhappy without one of her moms, no one even explained to her what happened at all
Очень сложная серия... сложно занимать чью то сторону, но Келли слишком легко отнеслась к переезду и к правам Аризоны на Софию. Реально обменяла дочь на «славную Пенни убийцу Дерека».
Кстати очень мило скрывают беременность Аризоны. Точнее актрисы, которая ее играет) снимают со спины, постоянно прикрывают чем то живот😅 хорошо что не убили хоть персонажа раз актриса беременна😅
честно, я в шоке. Наверное, время собирать минусы, но я, как одна из тех пяти с половиной людей "по ту сторону баррикад", всё таки скажу. Количество "Келли сама виновата" в этих комментах просто зашкаливает. Сразу скажу, что и Келли, и Аризону я люблю одинаково и считаю, что у них равные права на Софию, но как же так можно игнорировать все минусы Аризоны и идеализировать её на пустом месте? В голове не укладывается, как Келли вообще терпела всё это, Аризона её мучила из сезона в сезон. Сначала своими скандалами по поводу того, как она "категорически не хочет детей", потом постоянно причиняла Келли боль своими упрёками по поводу ампутации ноги. (она ведь тоже доктор, как можно не понимать, что иногда не бывает другого выхода? ей богу, будто Келли ей назло ногу отрезала) Вы только вспомните, сколько всего пережила и вытерпела Келли, пытаясь вытащить Аризону из депрессии. И что она получает за это? Измену Аризоны, как мило) Аризона вечно всем была недовольна и всё ей было не так, она думала только о себе, чем и разрушила их брак. И после этого тут все продолжают её защищать и нападать на Келли за то, что она посмела двигаться дальше. Почему? Конечно, лучшей матерью для ребёнка будет именно та, которая вместо того, чтобы провести время с любимой дочкой, бегала по барам и клеила новых женщин каждую ночь👍
Не поняла почему все накинулись на Келли. Она как никто заслуживает счастья и если счастливой ее делает Пенни (которую на мой взгляд не очень раскрыли за целый сезон) то пусть будет так И Аризоне она предлагала договориться. То что она на всякий случай подала заявление в школу, чтобы не было поздно характеризует ее как хорошую маму. Она сказала Аризоне, что хочет поговорить и решить вместе и если бы Аризона не обиделась я уверена они бы до чего-то дошли вместе. Она говорит Мер, что пыталась не любить Пенни и не хотеть с ней уехать, но она ее любит, почему это так плохо? Все кого она любила или изменяли ей или умерли или и то и другое вместе. Она хочет жить дальше. И это правильно жить свою жизнь. Она ребенка не подвергает каким-то ужасным условиям. И мы все зависим от решения наших родителей в детстве. Это жизнь, в ней вещи меняются. Это нормально. Она не отняла у Аризоны дочь после развода. И сейчас не собиралась
Ну как так??? Блин, может еще если Бейли с Уорреном разведется, ему отдадут ее ребенка? Ну что за дичь... Надеюсь Келли теперь останется и отвоюет Софию обратно.
Пишу мало коментов , но тут накипело . Изначально ситуация , никакая. Один год епрст потерпеть , один мать его год , и живите дальше. Но нет надо сделать , трагедию . Келли , головой совсем не думает , променять , счастье ребенка , переездом , когда речь идет, всего о годе. Так хотела быть с Пени , я так ее люблю , а теперь ты ее любить будешь ? И Пени тоже хороша , ну видела же к чему дело идет , ну и сказалаб Келли , давай любовь на расстоянии , перетерпим , но нет все думают только о себе , а ребенок впридачу.
Эта рыжая пизда портит всё к чему прикасается…Дерека убила, у Торес ребёнка отобрали стоило с ней связаться..Хотя я и не понимаю все эти идиотские лесбийские штучки, но ещё больше я не понимаю гребаные американские законы - как можно отобрать ребёнка у родной матери!!! И отдать его непонятной бывшей подружке🤷🏼♀️
очень-очень тяжело из-за этого противостояния не могу радоваться за аризону, так как жаль келли но тут так странно, она отказалась по факту от ребёнка, чтобы переехать с пенни, хотя можно было бы год попробовать поддерживать отношения на расстоянии по-моему, ребёнок гораздо важнее
Забавно, как создатели сериала раз за разом то вспоминают (когда это удобно) то забывают про протез Аризоны и напяливают на нее то платья, то юбки, и становится видно, что протеза нет
Я в шоке, что Софию отдали Аризоне… ветреной дамочке, которая вообще не хотела детей, улетела в Африку, вернулась, обиделась что Келли залетела и не хотела это принимать, лишилась ноги и очень долго выносила по этому поводу мозг Келли, изменила ей с левой женщиной, все время ходила по барам и клеила новых женщин…. Когда у нее сейчас будет время на ребенка? Буквально, когда? Если адвокат насчитал 150 дней за полгода, когда она была занята, София будет в садике все время? Чего ради? В Нью-Йорке о ней было бы кому познакомиться, два взрослых родителя (причем Келли сказала, что будет работать меньше там). Новые друзья, школа - для шестилетнего ребенка это совсем не проблема, даже наоборот хорошо. Аризона эгоистка и совсем не думает о том, что вместо нее с Софией постоянно будет Мер с сестрами/няня/воспитатели в детском саду. А могла бы быть мама.
вот и повылезали гомофобы с криками про биологическую мать. :) аризона официально удочерила софию, она такая же полноправная мать как и кэлли, но все, почему-то забывают об этом, когда это становится удобным. мерзко поступила адвокат торрес, искренне рада за аризону. невероятно сильная женщина.
Так Келли и надо! Нет, ну серьезно! Она видите ли решила с какой то девкой свалить в другой город и забрать с собой ребенка, предложив второму родителю мотаться по 6 часов на жалкие выходные в другой город, выдернув ребенка из привычной жизни по своей прихоти из-за девки?!?
В паре Аризоны и Кэлли мне всегда нравилась больше Кэлли, и на суде, казалось бы, надо было root for team Callie, но, если често, Аризона была благоразумнее. Очень сильная сцена на лавочке перед судом до оглашения решения
как вообще можно быть за кэлли, инфантильная, импульсивная, психованная, постоянно закатывает истерики и думает, что все вокруг ей должны, просто потому что она так хочет 🤡
Well, no, certainly not Arizona. She's inadequate. That's how she behaved after the disaster. "I hate everything and everyone.". I didn't take care of my daughter, but only whined. She's terribly annoying. And she's fickle. She had a relationship with almost half of the hospital. I don't mind at all if there is no child. But if there is a child and she will see how mom meets with different people every time, then well, it's not very good. She left and left Kelly. Then she flew in and started chasing her. Inadequate.
Both lawyers played dirty, but even in court, except for Arizona's last statement "whoever won....", it all came out in favor of Kelly. And based on their history, I'm leaning towards Kelly. Therefore, this decision is not clear to me.
And it turned out like in the parable of the two mothers and King Solomon ((
And Kelly didn't even agree to a partial one, as it was clear from the beginning of the series, maximum visitation rights on vacations and holidays.
Although the argument was given below that Kelly could look windy for the judge, but this is the reverse side, we have watched the life of the characters, we know what they had, and we are on someone's side. But the judge knows too little, I don't understand at all how, based on such a small amount of information, such a global decision can be made.
April and Jackson Milahi. They sort everything out themselves, very calmly. The two heroes have matured so much since last seasons.
And this is the moment when Arizona comes into the operating room and begins to lead the process, while remaining in absolute calm and with a smile on her face! Without her, the child would definitely not have survived.
but there was joy when Meredith mentioned Mark. such sweet memories, thank you so much for that!
They would also put pressure on the fact that she is not her own mother.
But in fact, what Kelly's biological mother doesn't say is that Arizona is worse or not worthy.
I couldn't decide for myself who I was rooting for in this situation, until Kelly's lawyer started saying these terrible things about Arizona and walking through the mud, it became very unpleasant that they could reduce her role as a mother.
And it is clear that since she was ready to step back from the fight, saying that it doesn't matter who wins - the main thing is that the child will be fine, this became the key for the judge.
It's a pity Edwards, of course, she acted badly, but she really has feelings for this musician, I hope everything will work out.
And it looks like everything will get better for April, they will be together.
OFFTOP: for the second series, the operator can't cope with Jessica's stomach) usually she was filmed to the waist, but here you can see what kind of a barrel she is)
The mention of Mark always warms the soul.
Well, they would also have done IVF there, like many lesbians, planned, and Kelly carried it out - but no, Kelly accidentally got pregnant from Mark, she and Arizona did not initially plan a common child.
I don't understand Arizona's position at all - she didn't want Sofia to be taken away - so maybe it would be possible to go to court in some other way, and not ask for "full custody", actually taking the child away from Kelly.
But about "why did Arizona do this", I didn't understand you) did you, I'm sorry, have you watched the last series carefully? It wasn't her who started the custody thing, but both of them, by the way, in this episode Kelly decided that they were going to court. Arizona asked for help to decide what to do here, and not with the words "hello, lawyer, let's file a court petition for full custody," because they discussed the options for the first part of the series on the phone, and when they realized that BOTH did not like the options, the case came to court.
If they are playing the card of the "Solomon Solution", then let's start with the fact that it was Arizona that filed the lawsuit. And then tearfully says, "after all, we are loving mothers anyway."..
Lawyer Kelly's "dirty game"? And the Arizona lawyer is all in a white coat? Questioning Penny's love for the child and asking what Sofia was wearing today is OK, is that what love proves?? Is it normal to ask Mer about her husband's death, etc.?
1- employment at work is not an indicator of which parent is better off or not. By the way, Kelly is leaving for a new city, where there will be a new job, and who knows what schedule she will have there. And Arizona only has the specifics of the work that is more in demand, so to speak, that's why the number of hours.
2- how does the unsettled state of her personal life affect the question?
3- Arizona did not file a lawsuit, Arizona turned to a lawyer, and they BOTH went to court when they could not agree at the beginning of the series on how to divide custody.
4- Kelly's lawyer was just more vile, and Arizona's lawyer didn't run over Kelly (!!!) and it was absolutely normal to ask Penny, whom Kelly has known for a couple of months, and for whom she is going to take the child away. This is a normal practice, because the question from the category "favorite toy" is not a detail, lawyers can prepare for this in advance when they say what possible questions there may be. The question about clothes is bullshit, but the question about school is an indicator, and very significant.
5- do not confuse your personal feelings with a professional approach to the work of a lawyer. She could be nasty and say, "You're a single mom, right?" what would be much more unpleasant than showing your condolences to a person, and then explaining why you ask such a question, it was also unpleasant for me in this situation, but this is the work of a lawyer, it's not about dirt, she asked about the fact, and did not start accusing someone, etc. So yes, it was a normal question from the point of view of work, not a personal relationship.
1 - we are not talking about well-being, we immediately wrote ourselves that it is decided what is best for the child. Kelly will initially have less work in the new city, this was mentioned in previous episodes back when Kelly decided to go.
2 - no way, a full/incomplete family does not matter at all. only what matters? change of address and school?
3- ok, without accepting a single offer from the other side to say that "it doesn't matter how everything is resolved," especially in the context of the story with the Solomon decision, it is incorrect, again, imho.
4 - well, Kelly's lawyer absolutely normally asked how many times Arizona goes to the bar with him. Kelly hasn't known Penny for a couple of months, Penny has known Sofia for a couple of months, because Kelly weighed it for a long time before introducing her daughter to her. About school- why do they ask Penny at all. Is the child being given to her? That is, it's disgusting to show how many times Arizona went to the bar, but it's not disgusting to interview Penny and show that she doesn't like the child because she got confused in classes?
5 - I'm just not confused. I show that both are good, they are both lawyers. It's you who write "Lawyer Kelly was more vile" about some of your criteria determining the degree of vile.
In general, I will not argue anymore. Everyone, I think, will remain with his opinion. Shonda is doing a great job here, she snapped :)
2- so Penny is not a family yet, besides, everything was not so smooth when they get married- let's talk about who is single and who is not, where is a full family and where is not.
3- I didn't understand this sentence. Arizona is tired of fighting, because there really is no better here, but only two loving parents who don't want to lose a child (seeing her 2 times a year is really cruel)
4- well, yes, in the series she said about Sofia, but she and Kelly obviously haven't known each other for more than a year = a few months.
Yes, because Penny has a 3 wheel here, and showing her shoals does not blacken Kelly, but showing Arizona shoals blackens Arizona. They asked about the school because it's important information, how can you not know such things if you are close to a child, as Kelly's lawyer is trying to show?
5- well, as you said yourself, this is my opinion, therefore my criteria. And it's disgusting, because they tried to show Arizona from such a bad side, Arizona's lawyer did not try to show what kind of mother Kelly was, besides, she did not know that Penny would not be able to answer the question about school or clothes, which means the goal was to find out how close the child really is with her.
I just don't understand why you were so hooked on Penny's interrogation when it was perfectly reasonable. A parent meets with a left-handed person, then decides to leave for this person taking the child with him, of course I want to understand how the child will be in this situation, what kind of relationship the child has with this left-handed person, because he is being taken to live with his family. I didn't see anything wrong with the lawyer's questions to Penny.
I think Shonda had such a goal, so that everyone would break up into camps)
and it was strange to talk about the workload and the number of calls, imho, in court. any surgeon, despite his irreplaceability, can influence his schedule. Arizona had a lot of challenges, so it all depends on what happened, who to leave the child with, she didn't raise her alone.
I've always been more sympathetic to Callie. But in this situation, she was wrong.
But I think she will decide not to leave, but to stay in Seattle. And break up with Penny.
Biologically, there is no one like a parent-educator, yes, and there is only a meeting agreement and so on. But full custody is out of the question. Why was Kelly's child taken away from her?
But for some reason Kelly turned out to be the scapegoat, because there may still be resentment in her and her lawyer said too much.
And Arizona is all in white. I don't understand all this.
Here everything is decided by "adults", and I am increasingly convinced of Shonda's personal cockroaches. She has already ruined her relationship in her project.
If she thinks in the end to repeat the success of Tibette (sex in another city), then she is very wrong. There, with all the foolishness, at least the child was not touched.
Biologically... biologically, we are all nobody to each other. Biologically, a husband and wife, for example, are nobody to each other, so what? Any fool with a uterus can give birth, you try to bring up, to raise a person. And here just biological kinship is generally the tenth thing.
And no matter how they say here that the biological component is not important, but it is not. If something serious happens to the child, then first of all a blood relative, not a guardian, will be able to help her.
I will stop the argument at this point. If even before this series I still hoped that calzona could return, then I think it's impossible now, because Shonda decided to destroy everything in the bud under the joyful hooting of Arizona fans.
And at the expense of the series, it is difficult, of course, to judge with whom to leave the child. I feel sorry for both (
In our country, recently, one biological mother threw her newborn baby into the toilet at a gas station. The child survived, the mother is on trial, and then the child's grandmother came to me: they say, you give it to me - the biological mother will come out, she will bring up, but for now I will look after. Let's leave the baby with the biological mother! Because DNA is the same! Hurray!
And Kelly understood herself even before she met Arizona with a cardiologist surgeon. I don't remember her name.
I imagined that, for example, my ex-husband was a wonderful father to our child from the very beginning. And the child is attached to him. The child has a lot of babysitters, friends, school. And so I was going with a new boyfriend to pull somewhere in another city, taking the child. OF COURSE, I WOULD AT LEAST DISCUSS THIS ISSUE WITH MY EX-HUSBAND. Because he was a good father and does not deserve to be separated from the child just because I had to have sex more often. Well, or, I repeat, Kelly at least should have discussed this issue, and not put it before the fact: I'm taking Sofia away, I've looked after a good school there, you'll see each other on vacation.
The decision pleased me, of course. I didn't believe that Arizona would win the trial, but I was honestly rooting for her. They're both good mothers. But as a human being, Kelly was wrong from the very beginning.
Yes, and I didn't come to Arizona from the very beginning to discuss all this and look for options TOGETHER.
Although, of course, all this is still very cruel and emotionally difficult. But I'm on the side of Arizona all the same.
That's just how many times I see the words about Arizona's betrayal in the comments.
I do not evaluate this act, but I just want to say that "not wanting to be with my wife/husband" and "not wanting to be with a child" are two different things.
I don't think that children in families with two parents, in which partners do not like each other (which most often causes at least suppressed anger), but try to "keep their face" for the sake of the child, are happier than in a situation when the parents are not together, but spend the same amount of time with the child.
The catch is that we in Russia are used to the place of residence. And in America, moving from city to city because of work is normal weekdays. So now it remains for them to "hold their face" for the sake of the child. They are both tied to the place. Here the child will be happy.
But there's really nothing to argue about. As the comments show, most people just don't like Penny, so they turned on Kelly. There is no logic to look for here.
Torres' facial expressions were distorted when Arizona first answered the call, and then went to the hospital. She's a surgeon, and she knew perfectly well that in this case Arizona had to go, but instead she showed something like: "Seriously?? Will you leave? Well, you're really-e-e."
And Kelly, of course, is a beauty - she, of course, does not doubt and does not delay making decisions, but she does not always have time to think with her head. For which I received.
The most annoying thing is that there are no unambiguously right and guilty in this situation, and no matter who was awarded full custody, everything would be unfair. But Arizona honestly tried to find a compromise, and more than once, so yes, I'm still on her side.
But I still really hope that she will remain an adult and will not interfere with Sofia seeing Kelly.
But if by nature: I was all for Arizona. She and only she is 100% right. You can't just take and change a child's place of residence, friends, school, etc. for the sake of a redhead. At the same time, without even consulting with the second parent. And Robins was right that what distinguishes her is that she will never say dirt, unlike Kelly. This situation forced me to look at Kelly in a new way, and now I can't perceive her normally
. P.S. the tummy of the actress played by Arizona is already very noticeable. I hope she will continue to play and she will not be merged))
P.P.S. I want to see more of Alex!
The moment when Kelly drops Penny's hand. Who would doubt it. Both are to blame, in fact, but to decide to drag the child away like this, and without even trying to initially discuss it with the second parent - that's the result. And what her lawyer said about Arizona... it was disgusting.
And so, based on this, for some reason I was sure that Arizona would win.
And now I'm almost sure that this will lead to the breakup of Kelly and Penny's relationship, the second will go to New York, and the first will stay in Seattle, because the only thing that does not change in Torres is her love for her daughter.
Kelly has been infuriating terribly this season. In fact, I got what I wanted to do with Arizona. But all the same, now she will blame anyone but herself...
In this series, she really pissed Mer off with her phrase "Yes, we are single mothers together." It was very ugly in relation to Arizona.
The cameramen, by the way, are completely messing around filming Arizona. At the beginning of the series in a skirt, heels - I even revised, maybe it seemed - but no.
And if she really meant it, then it gets even nastier.
I didn't dare to look for a long time, because I expected that the court would decide to leave the child with the biological mother. I'm glad that's not the case.
I love the magic of Arizona in the operating room. She's like a goddess there. And all this with such calmness and a smile on his face.
I can't bring myself to accept Blake. well, I don't like her (maybe the moment with Derek is still to blame...).
In general, I'm a fan of Calzone, and, although Shonda does not even give up hope. I hope that eventually Sofia will grow up in a family with both her moms.
P.S. I'm glad you remembered Mark.
we watched the series differently, because for me, it was Arizona's words that were the words of a real mother, ready to lose in court, just so that the child would live. and comparing the fight with the court and Arizona's fight with Russo for the child further enhanced this effect.
And in general, you know, everyone is so kind and "tolerant", even this honey is disgusting. The "second parent" dumps to Africa, takes out the brain about the leg, changes (read destroys the family), constantly at work - but in Seattle!! Hurrah hurrah hurrah! Kelly dared to take her daughter to another city in the hope of a good life - shame, Kelly is infuriating! Take her baby away from her! Atu!
It's a pity that Kelly's "dirty" lawyer didn't remember all the "colorful" past of this couple. There would be even more howling, but maybe an adequate decision would be made.
And some arguments about murderous mothers, foster parents of abandoned children and other things that are not in the arc to this situation at all - really, it's ridiculous.
Minus, you are doing it so amicably :)
And the point here is that Arizona has been around all this time anyway, and Kelly, with the look of "a six-hour one-way flight is such a trifle", is ready to immediately drop everything and snatch the child from his usual environment, from her home, school, from her friends.
On my own, I will add that in general, the child was Kelly and Mark, Arizona was against it at all. And all the time until Kelly's personal life got better, Arizona had absolutely nothing to do with Sofia.
justice in this series is a strange thing, as well as in life.
I wonder how the plot will develop further, because knowing Shonda, you can expect anything)))
And when Kelly and Mer said a little about Mark, she almost sobbed too.
Oh (
I read the comments and understand that most people have false ideas about life.
A 6-year-old child does not understand anything at all, you can say. Have you all forgotten how easy it is to make new acquaintances in childhood? Whoever you don't put in your sandbox is now a friend. No "deep emotional trauma for ever and ever" Sofia would not have arisen from the move.
A new house? - So what. New friends? — great. New classmates? - Even better.
Moving is hard, and the child REALLY DOESN'T WANT it when this child is 12+ years old. When a TEENAGER has already formed his own company, his own SOCIETY, his HOBBIES, SECTIONS, etc., i.e. when he is actually tied to a place. What Sofia has now in terms of "anchors" is nothing.
Now in general:
To bring to full custody is an extreme, of course. but. If you have to choose who to give it to, it's not Arizona.
And, in fact, she is more careless: all these fuckers of hers (is it possible to swear here or not?) on the side, random breakdowns to another country, jumps, paddocks, tantrums, etc. CLEARLY DO NOT PLAY IN HER FAVOR.
Of course, we can find explanations for all this (and how else, the characters are spelled out), but, again, if you choose between a parent with SUCH a "cool" emotional piano in the bushes and an ordinary loving parent, then who would you choose yourself?
I'm surprised Kelly's lawyer didn't make references to Arizona's actions. And, by the way, it would be nice to put pressure on disability. Who better, all other things being equal, to take care of the child? A person with or without a disability?
Do not be fooled by the far-fetched "but", "but actually", if you answer that disability does not play a role.
Oh, and, of course, all those "couch ethics-moralphages" who cackle: "That's how Lawyer Kelly could, ugh, get into the MUD," can you seriously not get into the banal understanding of things?
What's the dirt in it? How was Arizona insulted? I help everyone who wants to take off rose-colored glasses: the trial, suddenly, in principle, the case is vile. That's the whole point: to provide your opponent's pros and cons. And minuses, also suddenly, are always something unpleasant for the other side. BANG! (the glasses fell).
Maybe there was slander - no. And what happened? And there were facts that are the CONS of Arizona as a mother. And which, of course, are not pleasant to her. Hmm.. Something no longer fits in the theory about "dirt, dirt, fu", right?
interviews of witnesses to reveal their characters more deeply. the same painful questions about Arizona's workload at work, as a reminder of Miranda's worries a couple of seasons ago, when she was afraid that because she loves her job and performs more emergency operations, people might consider her a bad mother who does not love her son. Meredith's reminders that they are all one big village and Kelly takes Sofia away from it. transferring April's fears to the patient.
Comments, of course, fire. Everyone is considering the issue from their bell tower (which is quite logical) and based on their experience. I also want to insert my five kopecks.
Most of all, I was personally pleased with Maggie (Gray's sister), a very touching moment about her attitude to Meredith's children. In general, after these words, it was logical in which direction the series would go.
Of course, I am happy for Arizona, I am sad about Kelly, but most of all I am saddened by the fate of Sofia - with two living parents who are not only divorced, to see only one of them on a regular basis... And in any case, this situation is a loss for Sofia, so I personally have the impression from all this that neither Kelly nor Arizona thought with their heads in this situation, everything is emotional. Kelly has an eclipse from Penny, and Arizona is just as impulsive as ever.
In short, Sofia was the last thing anyone thought about here, so the judge decided everything was reasonable - to leave the child in a calm, familiar environment while the parents were going crazy.
And Arizona honestly offered to divide custody in half, but Kelly refused, at the very beginning of the series during negotiations before the court.
What infuriated me the most about the episode was that Kellie said "I can't stop loving her" about Penny. But here, as it were, a completely different question: you need to choose between love for a child and love for a Penny. And the choice should be simple, since Kaliope is a good mother (and we all know this). You can't sit on two chairs, you can't get everything at once. You'll chase two hares, as they say. Moreover, well, it would be possible to think about the future, where is the guarantee that Penny and Callie will continue to live together happily ever after? She's gone. They are not engaged, not married, just cohabiting.
And yes, I really liked how they drew an analogy with the Biblical story) Even as a child, I read it, remembered how it would end and realized, after Arizona's words about safety, that the child would stay with her))
P.S. Mer is soaaaaaa angry at Arizona...
They were judged correctly.
It's amazing how Mer can support Kelly if she's a mother herself...
Kelly did not receive an invitation from Penny to leave together, but actually begged for it.
Kelly put her own daughter on the line, in fact, she chose a mistress between her daughter and her mistress.
She feels like she's doing everything wrong.
But she is still rushing forward like a steam locomotive, not taking apart the road.
She overestimated her chances.
Penny has already ruined her life, but Kelly still doesn't see it.
I think Penny's going to kick Kelly out the door soon.
Arizona started all this in order to save her career, can you imagine what a pediatrician is who lost custody of her child? Knowing the mentality of Americans very well, I can say with accuracy and absolute certainty that this would have a bad effect on her image and the desire of people to give her their children for treatment. Arizona is selfish. And a coward. She ruined their marriage with Kelly, so she also shits Torres in every possible way in order to show herself "in all her glory."
But now it will be "wonderful" to look at her whining about a proud single mom and her battle for her "daughter".
1. "She needs Sofia only as a toy" is a very interesting conclusion from nothing, apparently so for every child - one parent loves, and the second one has fun.
2. "screaming hysterically Arizona and quiet, strong Lexi" - of course, with this episode the writers wanted to show that Arizona is hysterical. Then remember Kristina in the same episode.
3. "started all this", "a pediatrician who lost custody" - as if Kelly initially did not deprive Arizona of custody, but just wanted Sofia to live with her. Arizona went to court to prevent Kelly from taking their child away so easily.
I want to note that I also don't like Arizona in many moments, especially regarding some of her decisions in her marriage with Kelly, but in this situation I am completely on her side. You can't just take children away from one of the parents and consider it the norm, no matter who gave birth to him there.
Seriously, the judge's decision seems to me to be insultingly unfair. Arizona is a selfish mannered bitch. I took out my brain all the way, took the whole soul out of Kelly. Kelly was constantly giving in to her, so long as the world was in the family. And Arizona has already trampled on it to the fullest. Then she turned it around at the airport, saying that she would fly to Africa alone, then she could not come to terms with Kelly's pregnancy, then she changed it. And she didn't want to give birth herself when they decided to have another child, but it turned out that Kelly wouldn't be able to get pregnant. Yes, and she started all this quarrel with the division of Sofia. Ah-ah, Kelly will take Sofia away from Seattle. Is she going to take her to the desert, to the jungle, to a warring country? Just to New York. This is in our time, when people do nothing but travel all over the world. It's even good for the child - his horizons expand, new experience is gained. And, as I understand it, they were going to go for a year, for the duration of the grant. But leaving a child without another mother is normal. Where is the logic?
I'm glad for Arizona, Kelly is in fact to blame herself for not consulting, after all, they are both Sofia's moms.
If she knew that this could happen, if it came to court, then why the hell not just give up this trip? No, I love Kelly, but she still hasn't grown up. She is like a big child who lights up with something and acts impulsively
- Objection, speculation.
- She can't do that.
- You can't do that :)
И Аризоне она предлагала договориться. То что она на всякий случай подала заявление в школу, чтобы не было поздно характеризует ее как хорошую маму. Она сказала Аризоне, что хочет поговорить и решить вместе и если бы Аризона не обиделась я уверена они бы до чего-то дошли вместе.
Она говорит Мер, что пыталась не любить Пенни и не хотеть с ней уехать, но она ее любит, почему это так плохо? Все кого она любила или изменяли ей или умерли или и то и другое вместе. Она хочет жить дальше.
И это правильно жить свою жизнь. Она ребенка не подвергает каким-то ужасным условиям. И мы все зависим от решения наших родителей в детстве. Это жизнь, в ней вещи меняются. Это нормально.
Она не отняла у Аризоны дочь после развода. И сейчас не собиралась
Надеюсь Келли теперь останется и отвоюет Софию обратно.
не могу радоваться за аризону, так как жаль келли
но тут так странно, она отказалась по факту от ребёнка, чтобы переехать с пенни, хотя можно было бы год попробовать поддерживать отношения на расстоянии
по-моему, ребёнок гораздо важнее
аризона официально удочерила софию, она такая же полноправная мать как и кэлли, но все, почему-то забывают об этом, когда это становится удобным.
мерзко поступила адвокат торрес, искренне рада за аризону.
невероятно сильная женщина.
And she's fickle. She had a relationship with almost half of the hospital. I don't mind at all if there is no child. But if there is a child and she will see how mom meets with different people every time, then well, it's not very good.
She left and left Kelly. Then she flew in and started chasing her.
Inadequate.